Invasor, Excitement?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know if I could be more suprised than after reading that. Are you saying it gets worse?

Unfortunately, it gets worse! My hope is that this guy just has a perverted sense of humor cause if he really is serious...man, he needs a lot of help. Sometimes you run into someone on the net that you think..."this guy can't be for real"...with Blockhead...I'm afraid, he really is like this!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by boswd

We have heard about the great accomplishments of Lava Man, SA "Cap, HOGC, Pac Classic, Bernardini - Preakness, Jim Dandy, Travers. All great accomplishments and very worthy of all the praise they are receiving.

But Invasor is on the verge of, IMO, of accomplishing something just as if not more special - The Pimilco Special, The Suburban, The Whitney and possible the Jockey Club Gold Cup. That is a super horse type year. And yet there is little to no talk of this.

My thoughts exactly, he is getting overlooked. To me he has shown that he is a warrior, Bernardini has looked brilliant but I think people make mistakes in judgement when they see the easy fast wins and just assume he will race even faster when pushed hard due to a challenge. I've seen many times when a horses fastest races figurewise are earned in easy unchallenged gallops.

Also I feel people are making too much of the close win over Sun King. Invasor had the worst of that race and still had enough to hold of Sun King who ran his best race and also had it set up well for him.

I am really looking forward to this race, and this match-up in particular.
I'm taking a stand with Invasor because his figures match up well with Bern's and like I said they were earned more in battles which is more difficult and the price will be relatively attractive. We'll see.

Don't get me wrong Bern has done nothing wrong and I'm not knocking him. If he dispatches Invasor with ease, well there won't be anything anyone can say about him.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by boswd

We have heard about the great accomplishments of Lava Man, SA "Cap, HOGC, Pac Classic, Bernardini - Preakness, Jim Dandy, Travers. All great accomplishments and very worthy of all the praise they are receiving.

But Invasor is on the verge of, IMO, of accomplishing something just as if not more special - The Pimilco Special, The Suburban, The Whitney and possible the Jockey Club Gold Cup. That is a super horse type year. And yet there is little to no talk of this.

I think YOU could have won the Pimlico Special, Suburban, and Whitney if u were racing against some of the mules that Invasor has been running against.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think YOU could have won the Pimlico Special, Suburban, and Whitney if u were racing against some of the mules that Invasor has been running against.

well, that's original...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think YOU could have won the Pimlico Special, Suburban, and Whitney if u were racing against some of the mules that Invasor has been running against.

As opposed to the monsters of the breed that Lava Man was beating?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

As opposed to the monsters of the breed that Lava Man was beating?

I don't think u will ever find a single post on any forum where I have said anything good about what Lava Man has been facing. I think they are equally pathetic. In fact, I was most upset that they didn't send Lava Man to the Arlington Million instead of the Pacific Classic because I am tired of seeing him beat up on the same bums over and over again. Where is the fun in watching that?

[boswd]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think u will ever find a single post on any forum where I have said anything good about what Lava Man has been facing. I think they are equally pathetic. In fact, I was most upset that they didn't send Lava Man to the Arlington Million instead of the Pacific Classic because I am tired of seeing him beat up on the same bums over and over again. Where is the fun in watching that?

It really is one of my pet peeves the whole "Who did he beat?". I think we posted something on this nature a little while back. We have heard the same knock on all three horses.
Tell me who were they supposed to beat? Who were they ducking? Were they racing in obscure races that nobody heard of? The last I checked The SA "Cap, Hwd GC, Pac Classic, Pim Special, Suburban, Whitney, Preakness, Jim Dandy, Travers were all historic(maybe with the exception of the Pac classic only 25 yrs old) prestigious, High Profile races. Among the top races the sport has to offer. So again I ask, Who were they supposed to beating?

[Gander]

As long as all three horses get the same "who did they beat" knock. Its not fair to just give Lava Man that knock and not Bernardini and Invasor (and vice versa). Because lets face it, none of these 3 horses have yet to beat the very best competition. I guess we'll find out who the best horse is in the coming weeks/months. Fact is these are the 3 best dirt horses in training right now and its hard not to get excited about a possible clash of all 3 at Churchill. I am getting very excited to see Invasor and Bernardini mix it up next Saturday.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think u will ever find a single post on any forum where I have said anything good about what Lava Man has been facing. I think they are equally pathetic. In fact, I was most upset that they didn't send Lava Man to the Arlington Million instead of the Pacific Classic because I am tired of seeing him beat up on the same bums over and over again. Where is the fun in watching that?

Then why continue to make the same " who have they beaten " posts? We're not idiots here, well most of us aren't, we understand the overall level of competition isn't what it was in 1957, or 1967, or any number of past years, but that doesn't make it impossible to judge a horse's " true " ability.

Invasor is a good horse, a very good horse, and the nature of his wins proves that ( the same could easily be said about Lava Man ). Each has overcome some adversity....Invasor was forced to run as his own rabbit in the Pimlico Special and was still able to rerally to run down the loose speed. He made what could easily be called a premature move into a strong pace in the Whitney and was still able to hold off Sun King who enjoyed a much sweeter trip. No, Sun King is not the be all and end all, but he is no slouch either as evidenced by his narrow defeat in the Met Mile and previous resume of at least solid races. And, if you look at speed figures, he has run at least acceptably " fast " in these races.

I can't break down Lava Man's races as well simply because I don't follow California racing, but his win in the SA Handicap seemed very legitimate to me. He was right on the heels of a contentious pace, one that buried favored High Limit, and still held off perfect trip Magnum ( who was coming off a very solid effort...though obviously he's tailed off ). He encountered severe early trouble in his return this summer and still managed to gut out a victory and while the P Classic was obviously a less than stellar field he won like a dominent horse is supposed to win.

You say he should have run in the Arlington Million instead of beating up " the same bums over and over again ". You have to be kidding me. He should have run in a race he was extremely unlikely to win for the same purse he was odds on to win? His connections have run in all the big races for going on two years but he should have chosen more difficult spots because.......you weren't getting any pleasure out of his campaign? The simple fact is had his connections run him in the Million they, in all likelihood, would have been ridiculed for passing the easy money in the P Classic in the hopes of winning a race they were, at best, 25% as likely to win.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

As opposed to the monsters of the breed that Lava Man was beating?

Don't forget the monsters that Bernardini has been beating.

[boswd]

And what gets me about this whole East Coast Bias thing is look at who is the trainer in the game right now who has been the biggest media darling and probably the most well know trainer outside of regular Horse racing fans. Bob Bafffert, a Cali based trainer. And who made him out that way? the media. Look at their past Jockey's they have been among the sport most recognizable names _ Laffit Pincay, The Shoe, Chris McCarron, Gary Stevens, P Val. Eddie D, beside their accomplishments who make them household names? The media!!
Drives me nuts when West Coasters whine when everything doesn't go there way.

[blackthroatedwind]

There is no East Coast/West Coast bias...only some insecurity issue that, it seems to me, only comes from West Coast people. A good horse is a good horse. Anyone can see that. Part of the problem, and I guess this has been said here before, is that a horse stabled on the East Coast tends to ship around a bit, whether Florida in the Winter or Kentucky in the Spring or Fall plus Delaware in the summer, as well as obviously New York. In California there is really only the SA-Hollywood-Del Mar circuit so you don't get as many different opportunities. Thus a good horse on the East Coast has an easier time shipping for opportunities to prove itself. However, West Coast horses ship and certainly hold their own, if they're good enough.

It's not like anybody knowledgable is proclaiming " a good East Coast horse will always beat a good West Coast horse " or any such silliness. It is just misguided defensiveness.