Invasor, Excitement?

[boswd]

We have heard about the great accomplishments of Lava Man, SA "Cap, HOGC, Pac Classic, Bernardini - Preakness, Jim Dandy, Travers. All great accomplishments and very worthy of all the praise they are receiving.

But Invasor is on the verge of, IMO, of accomplishing something just as if not more special - The Pimilco Special, The Suburban, The Whitney and possible the Jockey Club Gold Cup. That is a super horse type year. And yet there is little to no talk of this.

[SniperSB23]

I definitely agree that he is underappreciated. Bernardini will not have an easy time in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

he is also the Urguyanian three year old champion,

i think he was undefeated over there,

FMC would know, as he alerted the group to his first run in america months ago. not many remember though, because to recognize that, you have to forget about yourself for a while.

[Sightseek]

I think people really hold the Sun King thing against him....it's like dating a real tool and your friends never letting you live it down. LOL

Instead of saying that Sun King ran the race of his life they want to say Invasor isn't very good. Glass half full vs. glass half empty....

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

he is also the Urguyanian three year old champion,

i think he was undefeated over there,

FMC would know, as he alerted the group to his first run in america months ago. not many remember though, because to recognize that, you have to forget about yourself for a while.

What is the point of the last part of that sentence?

[fmc123412]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

he is also the Urguyanian three year old champion,

i think he was undefeated over there,

FMC would know, as he alerted the group to his first run in america months ago. not many remember though, because to recognize that, you have to forget about yourself for a while.

Hey Paul!

He was undefeated over there, indeed! He was also triple crown winner there.

His only defeat came at last year's UAE Derby on Dubai.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by fmc123412

Hey Paul!

He was undefeated over there, indeed! He was also triple crown winner there.

His only defeat came at last year's UAE Derby on Dubai.

It was THIS year's UAE Derby, 2006, won by Discreet Cat. He was eligible as a Southern Hemisphere 3yo.

[fmc123412]

Originally Posted by Linny

It was THIS year's UAE Derby, 2006, won by Discreet Cat. He was eligible as a Southern Hemisphere 3yo.

You´re right! My bad...

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I definitely agree that he is underappreciated. Bernardini will not have an easy time in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

Bernardidni this and Bernardini that,,

i am sick about hearing of a horse who has yet to defeat a grade1 winner and yet to defeat an older horse.

ya he looked good with his jockeys silks flowing in the extreme breeze and some view that as speed, i view it as windy that day.
some say he defeated BARBARO and BLUGRASS CAT, i say ya, but they both broke down while racing him, so these are moot comparisons.

what we have is a three year old who picked his races to run in, picking ones he knew he could win, and in those races his formidable competition runs lame.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

Bernardidni this and Bernardini that,,

i am sick about hearing of a horse who has yet to defeat a grade1 winner and yet to defeat an older horse.

People keep forgetting that the Preakness field (even without Barbaro) still had Brother Derek(a G1 winner by the way) and sweetnorthernsaint.. both very solid horses that were soundly defeated. Although it's true bernie has yet to be tested against older horses.

[Gander]

what we have is a three year old who picked his races to run in, picking ones he knew he could win, and in those races his formidable competition runs lame.

I dont agree at all Sec. He hasnt ducked a single horse and in 12 days he takes on the 1st or 2nd handicap horse in the country. Its not his fault Barbaro broke down and SNS and Brother Derek werent at their best. The Dwyer was simply a prep for the Travers that I agree came up very weak, but its not his fault. Hes doing what any really good 3 year old does from May through Oct, beat up on fellow 3 year olds that are either tired from the Triple Crown or just not all that talented.

I can understand you feeling he is a bit overhyped. But he'll get his big test next weekend and that should answer many of the people doubting him or gloating about him.

Originally Posted by Gander

what we have is a three year old who picked his races to run in, picking ones he knew he could win, and in those races his formidable competition runs lame.

I dont agree at all Sec. He hasnt ducked a single horse and in 12 days he takes on the 1st or 2nd handicap horse in the country. Its not his fault Barbaro broke down and SNS and Brother Derek werent at their best. The Dwyer was simply a prep for the Travers that I agree came up very weak, but its not his fault. Hes doing what any really good 3 year old does from May through Oct, beat up on fellow 3 year olds that are either tired from the Triple Crown or just not all that talented.

I can understand you feeling he is a bit overhyped. But he'll get his big test next weekend and that should answer many of the people doubting him or gloating about him.

i know its not his fault, but it happened and it diminishes the victory, to say it doesn't is to ignore the obvious.

[todko]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

People keep forgetting that the Preakness field (even without Barbaro) still had Brother Derek(a G1 winner by the way) and sweetnorthernsaint.. both very solid horses that were soundly defeated. Although it's true bernie has yet to be tested against older horses.

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

jeez someone from del mar actually knows something bout dem horses. good to see an enlightened poster, even if you are from that other board. (too bad joel ruined it for everyone).

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

Yep, Bernardini is slow alright. It has been ALL luck that he won the Preakness, Jim Dandy, Withers, and Travers. It was all luck that he ran his last three races with -TG numbers and 113-116 BSFs. It was all luck that he ran one of the fastest times ever in the Travers and ran sub 155 in the Preakness. No, Bluegrass Cat couldn't have gotten injured because he was trying so hard to keep up with Bernardini. That couldn't possibly be a reason. Bluegrass Cat would have definitely beat him if he wasn't injured in the Travers. Yep...

And all of those other horses are allowance horses that Bernardini ran against in the Travers too. High Cotton is definitely an allowance horse...yep. As is Dr. Pleasure, Hesanoldsalt, and Minister's Bid. Shame on Pletcher, Zito, and Ward for even putting those horses in that race.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

You forgot one thing, he's well bred, so he must be good...

I agree with most of what you said, but I think he's a very good horse, not the super horse hype machine kind, but we will see when things haven't always gone his way...

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by todko

A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from him.

Hahahahahaha! That was a good one. I think you meant to put it in the 'Joke of the Day' thread though.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

You're going to be a rich man or woman, Todko. If I felt as strongly as you do, I'd be loading up against Bernardini in the JCGC. Since you have no doubt that Invasor will beat Bernardini, I trust you will be betting the farm on that proposition.

Off the top of my head, I'd say there's maybe a 1/3 chance that Invasor will finish ahead of Bernardini. It's not going to shock me either way. However, it WOULD shock me if Invasor wins by 8. It would not shock me if Bernardini wins by 8. That's the difference to me. We've probably seen the best or nearly the best from Invasor. We don't know what Bernardini's best is yet.

--Dunbar

[boswd]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

To use the excuse that Brother Derek and SNS were spent is nonsense. They were not the better horse that day at all. In fact Brother Derek has been nothing since racing outside of Cali. Are they the only two horse in history to ever run in derby Preps and run in the first two legs of the TC? Look at Afleet Alex's run last year. Ran in three derby Preps and all three TC's races. To say they were "tired" as an excuse is just that an excuse. They were beaten soundly by a much better horse. At if you research boodhorse.com and plug in SNS you will find the reason you have not seen him is because the trainer is keeping him as far away as possible from Bernardini. I dont' think he is a "Super Horse" yet either but to not give him any credit just because of SoCal absolutly dismal preformances in all the major races for 3 yr olds in just being stubborn to adimit you're wrong.

[Danzig]

invasor is certainly a bit forgotten. all the press in the east is on bernardini, and in the west you have lava man....leaving invasor as the monkey in the middle. horse has one defeat on an otherwise perfect, globe-trotting record. that one loss was to discreet cat in dubai, and that after leaving south america and going to florida, and then shipping to dubai. he was perfect before that trip, and is perfect since.

i'm looking forward very much to this race. yeah, he beat sun king...maybe he wasn't at his best after the spring he had and 'bounced', yet he still gutted out the win--after all, how many horses ship like that, and then run in the pimlico special for instance? let's not forget, discreet cat was already in dubia, only shipped here (not there and back), and just made HIS return. and then there's henny hughes, shipped over and back. how many starts has he had since arriving? well, you see my point.