The Michael Gill/Penn National Riders Saga

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

One complete untruth posted several times in this thread is that Gill makes money on his horse racing operation. That being said this thread is still several levels above the drivel in the comment section on Paulicks site...

How would you know his P&L.. Your telling me he is doing this for the thrill of winning 5 claimers? I don't know if he is making money or losing money?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How would you know his P&L.. Your telling me he is doing this for the thrill of winning 5 claimers? I don't know if he is making money or losing money?

He's an ego maniac Freddy, why else would he operate the way he is?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

He's an ego maniac Freddy, why else would he operate the way he is?

I don't know anything about Gill or his personality.. Have you met him or is your ego maniac chacterizeration based on track lure? He might be the jerk or a great charity sweet guy for all I know? I will say that if the jocks who are typically free agents only interested in there themselves are unified something appears to be very wrong.

I think the guy business is Mortgages in New England well that business can't be extremely profitable currently anyway.. I would think he is looking to earn not crack a bottle of Petrus when his 40 nickle claimer bounces on a field.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How would you know his P&L.. Your telling me he is doing this for the thrill of winning 5 claimers? I don't know if he is making money or losing money?

Of course he's losing money... though not as much as before cause of the purses.

And no question he gets a big thrill from winning nickle claimers.

It's all about having action.

It's not like he hasn't tried buying expensive horses. He's bought several unraced horses for low-to-mid six figures.

The most memorable of which was Forest Music.

Forest Music was the first horse to ever work a 1/4 mile in 20 and change at the Calder 2yo sale. She won her debut like a freak for Gill/Shuman in 1:08 2/5ths - got a 105 Beyer.

Two weeks later, they shipped the obvious sprinter across country to run in the BC Juvie Fillies in the Halfbridled-Ashado race. They basically set her way back.

The very first race after Gill sold her ... she went and dominated the Grade 2 Honorable Miss at Saratoga for Stonestreet/Asmussen.

The guy doesn't have the patience of your typical wealthy snob owner.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The very first race after Gill sold her ... she went and dominated the Grade 2 Honorable Miss at Saratoga for Stonestreet/Asmussen.

Talk about easy money.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's all about having action.

.

If he was a politician he would just go out and get himself a hooker.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How would you know his P&L.. Your telling me he is doing this for the thrill of winning 5 claimers? I don't know if he is making money or losing money?

I have a little experience in what it costs to have thoroughbreds in training. He cant make money. It is impossible even for a gyp operation. Whether he is using the loss for some kind of tax relief is another question.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have a little experience in what it costs to have thoroughbreds in training. He cant make money. It is impossible even for a gyp operation. Whether he is using the loss for some kind of tax relief is another question.

The interesting thing is that he runs them under his specific name, and not under an LLC.

IRS will be able to have a field day just on that very stance if they ever bust out the hobby vs business on him..

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Scav

The interesting thing is that he runs them under his specific name, and not under an LLC.

IRS will be able to have a field day just on that very stance if they ever bust out the hobby vs business on him..

That's addressed in today's piece...

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/gi...hats-so-wrong/

He's been involved in a 5 year evaluation by IRS on the hobby/business equation:

Though he said he has lost tens of millions of dollars over the years, Gill claims he didn’t “put one penny of my money into the business last year. I can go to the IRS and say this is a business, it isn’t a hobby.” Gill said he is in a five-year audit with the Internal Revenue Service over whether or not his racing stable is a legitimate business.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

That's addressed in today's piece...

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/gi...hats-so-wrong/

He's been involved in a 5 year evaluation by IRS on the hobby/business equation:

Though he said he has lost tens of millions of dollars over the years, Gill claims he didn’t “put one penny of my money into the business last year. I can go to the IRS and say this is a business, it isn’t a hobby.” Gill said he is in a five-year audit with the Internal Revenue Service over whether or not his racing stable is a legitimate business.

That has to be quite fun, yikes.

[randallscott35]

He'll be in jail soon.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

He'll be in jail soon.

Let's start a Jail pool.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

That's addressed in today's piece...

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/gi...hats-so-wrong/

He's been involved in a 5 year evaluation by IRS on the hobby/business equation:

Though he said he has lost tens of millions of dollars over the years, Gill claims he didn’t “put one penny of my money into the business last year. I can go to the IRS and say this is a business, it isn’t a hobby.” Gill said he is in a five-year audit with the Internal Revenue Service over whether or not his racing stable is a legitimate business.

He loves to pay for things and people cash. Keeps the on the books expenses down, makes it easier to try to declare a profit and avoids all those pesky payroll taxes and workmans compensation audits.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He loves to pay for things and people cash. Keeps the on the books expenses down, makes it easier to try to declare a profit and avoids all those pesky payroll taxes and workmans compensation audits.

From that article:
- He attributes much of the stable’s success to the fact he gives all of his horses medication for Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis, or EPM, a neurological disease. “A good 80% of horses have EPM,” he said. He also has throat surgeries, or myectomies, performed on many of the horses he claims because “with EPM, one side of the flap (in the epiglottis) is gone, and the other half doubles in size. Then it closes up. The surgery helps them breathe.”

Chuck, question - what treatment would he be giving for EPM? I thought they were still working on finding good treatment and the existing treatments came with lengthy treatment times, time off for the horse and possible side-effects like anemia? (besides Gill's stats being wrong)

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

From that article:
- He attributes much of the stable’s success to the fact he gives all of his horses medication for Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis, or EPM, a neurological disease. “A good 80% of horses have EPM,” he said. He also has throat surgeries, or myectomies, performed on many of the horses he claims because “with EPM, one side of the flap (in the epiglottis) is gone, and the other half doubles in size. Then it closes up. The surgery helps them breathe.”

Chuck, question - what treatment would he be giving for EPM? I thought they were still working on finding good treatment and the existing treatments came with lengthy treatment times, time off for the horse and possible side-effects like anemia?

Figure 8 bridle

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

From that article:
- He attributes much of the stable’s success to the fact he gives all of his horses medication for Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis, or EPM, a neurological disease. “A good 80% of horses have EPM,” he said. He also has throat surgeries, or myectomies, performed on many of the horses he claims because “with EPM, one side of the flap (in the epiglottis) is gone, and the other half doubles in size. Then it closes up. The surgery helps them breathe.”

Chuck, question - what treatment would he be giving for EPM? I thought they were still working on finding good treatment and the existing treatments came with lengthy treatment times, time off for the horse and possible side-effects like anemia? (besides Gill's stats being wrong)

He used to give oral meds that are pretty commonly used. I suppose he still does the same. Not cheap either even if you are buying it in vats. His statement is impossible to verify by the way. 80% of horses may have been exposed to EPM but that doesnt mean that giving them medications will help them in any manner.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Don't they run 4k open claimers for 18K at Penn Nat? Hard to believe you can't make a living even if you hit 20%...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Don't they run 4k open claimers for 18K at Penn Nat? Hard to believe you can't make a living even if you hit 20%...

at $50 per day and 120 horses that is over $2.1 million for those horses alone. And that is before vets, farm salaries, shipping, workmans comp, purchase prices, maintenance and other expenses at the farm, etc. An operation done semi-right of that size with a farm would cost $4-5 million. He ran 2247 horses last year so you can pretty much double all the figures since with a 120 horse operation it would mean his horses averaged close to 19 starts each. He states in the Paulick article today he had 450 horses last year at one time. The day he had 450 horses at say $50 a day it was costing him $22000 a day without the other expenses factored in. That is around 8 million in expenses without regard to one cent of purchase price.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have a little experience in what it costs to have thoroughbreds in training. He cant make money. It is impossible even for a gyp operation. Whether he is using the loss for some kind of tax relief is another question.

He is paying less then 50 a day and I am sure his vetting is highly discounted.. He has more then a few that get claimed away at prices above his purchase price. AND he wins a lot

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

He is paying less then 50 a day and I am sure his vetting is highly discounted.. He has more then a few that get claimed away at prices above his purchase price. AND he wins a lot

At $50 a day he is getting murdered.