McKee Blew it!

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Zoe

Trying not to be too critical, But Lawyer Ron will need to be carrying an oxygen tank instead of a rider to make it a step past 1 1/8 miles. He will be solid at 1 - 1 1/16, and may beat lesser at 1 1/8, but 1 1/4 is beyond this horse's ability.
If he runs in the Classic, he's not much more than a pace factor for the big boys.

Let's see he's had 2 races @ 1 1/8th, he's won one and run 2nd in the other(while setting fast fractions), the Derby is a throwout, because he came up hurt and was over the top with all of the racing. Please justify your statement, because you have no proof that he can't go that far....

[sumitas]

SC almost broke the track record yesterday, only coming up 2 ticks off. Both SC and LR shoould get huge numbers for the race.

[Gander]

You cant say that there is no way Strong Contender is the better horse or vice versa. I personally think so but cnt argue with those who feel Lawyer Ron is the better horse. But please dont act like Lawyer Ron is some super horse like Bernardini and whos recent wins blow Strong Contender's resume out of the water. Its just not true. I agree these horses are very close in ability but I think Strong Contender is more talented. Only time will tell, and maybe time wont even tell with the way horses are retired just when your getting into rivalries.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Gander

You cant say that there is no way Strong Contender is the better horse or vice versa. I personally think so but cnt argue with those who feel Lawyer Ron is the better horse. But please dont act like Lawyer Ron is some super horse like Bernardini and whos recent wins blow Strong Contender's resume out of the water. Its just not true. I agree these horses are very close in ability but I think Strong Contender is more talented. Only time will tell, and maybe time wont even tell with the way horses are retired just when your getting into rivalries.

I think you're right only that I think that SC and LR are about at the same level at 1 1/8. Past 1 1/8, it's SC all the way. I really think LR has distance limitations. Yesterday proved that neither one of these horses are "slow". SC made a very, very nice move coming around the final turn. I think that this horse is improving, and will be an extremely nice horse as a four year old. I really see SC being a late bloomer because of his size. I mean, you saw the difference in SC's size and LR's size yesterday. SC is HUGE!!! I also think that the Beyers for this race will be decent in the grand scheme of GI horses.

I would like to see Holthus skip the BCC with LR and point him to the Cigar Mile. I don't think that he will be a factor in the Classic because I really don't think this horse is going to want 1 1/4 especially with him being as rank as he is, but I do think that he would do very well in the CM.

[Danzig]

one race at 10f imo isn't enough to say lawyer ron can't get the distance. i remember that folks thought congaree couldn't get it either. altho he didn't win them all, he was always there at the end.

hard to say yet which of the two is better, SC or LR. of course head to head right now, you'd have to think strong contender is the better, since he's the one with the win.

not so sure that ron will be back. i know there's a stud deal in place for him. i wouldn't be surprised if he ran til the end of the year, whether bcc or elsewhere, and then retired.

strong contender--i'm hoping he'll be back next year. i don't feel he's done enough yet to really garner a lot of attention as far as breeding, and that he's still improving. still a lot of upside to this guy, i think he could be a top older horse.

[2Hot4TV]

If you watched the race you could see that Lawyer Ron was (IMO) intimidated by the horses around him in post parade. That was Strong Contender and he was cool , calm and relaxed. The only reason I didn't bet him was because he refused to be loaded in the gate. In hind sight he didn't get mad or angry he was just stubborn and kept turning sideways to the gate. I think Strong Contender is going to improve off this race.

[dalakhani]

Just a quick question for all of the Lawyer Ron apologists. What has he ever beaten? The Arkansas route was quite soft this year and its not like the St louis derby is a real race.

Has he beaten anything of quality?

[Zoe]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Let's see he's had 2 races @ 1 1/8th, he's won one and run 2nd in the other(while setting fast fractions), the Derby is a throwout, because he came up hurt and was over the top with all of the racing. Please justify your statement, because you have no proof that he can't go that far....

Its just an opinion. I have no need to justify it. My impression is that this horse will be fine up to 1 1/8 miles, but I don't believe he can get the extra 1/8th mile at this time. If they ran him in the BC, its "my opinion" that he can't get the distance with the big horses.
And conversely,using your logic, he has not shown anything to suggest that he can get the distance.The Derby may be a "throwout", but the FACT of the matter is he has tried it once and was hammered.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by Zoe

Its just an opinion. I have no need to justify it. My impression is that this horse will be fine up to 1 1/8 miles, but I don't believe he can get the extra 1/8th mile at this time. If they ran him in the BC, its "my opinion" that he can't get the distance with the big horses.
And conversely,using your logic, he has not shown anything to suggest that he can get the distance.The Derby may be a "throwout", but the FACT of the matter is he has tried it once and was hammered.

The derby is a throw out watch him run up the backside and McKee can't get him to relax so he just about ran over like 5 horses

[Gander]

Thanks for watching the replay of the Haskell. I beg anyone who thinks Cacique and English Channel had bad trips in the Arl Million to watch the first part of the Haskell and Strong Contender. Please.

[horseofcourse]

Someone wanted to know who Lawyer Ron beat and was quite persistent...got the time??

Lewis Michael
Smokeyjonessutton
Point Determined...graded stakes winner
Steppenwolfer
Private Vow...graded stakes winner
HIgh Cotton...graded stakes winner
Simon Pure
Hyte Regency
Red Raymond
Mark of Success
Kip Deville
AP Warrior...graded stakes winner
Sharp Humor
Flashy Bull
Bob and John...graded stakes winner
Sinister Minister...graded stakes winner
Louisborg
Costa Rising
Saint Augustus
With a City...graded stakes winner
Music School
Keyed Entry...graded stakes winner
Cause to Believe...graded stakes winner
Sayhellotolarry
Well Said
Nob Hill Delite
Film Fortune
Celluloind Hero
Malameeze
Cielo Gold
More than Regal
LIke an Eagle
Casino Evil
Follow the Storm
Starspangled Gator
His Eyes

It's a meaningless list. My thoughts on the race. I dont' think McKee did the wrong thing. Trainers don't want horses to run loose on the lead anymore. What happened to Quincy Hamilton when he did that on Kip Deville?? I believe he was taken off the horse wasn't he? As others have said, the horse has rated in many races...even races he lead like the Risen Star. The connections said he rated very well in the St Louis Derby and he was way back early there as he was in the Rebel. For whatever reason he doesn't always do it. I think they felt they perhaps turned the corner last race and when he shot forward again...McKee I am sure was doing what he was instructed to do.

I like the horse. I don't know what the Beyer was, I am guessing that Strong Contender and Lawyer Ron will be in the 100 to 104 range perhaps? They aren't on the DRF leaderboard. The equibase figure for Lawyer Ron was a 107 which was right on the 108 he got for the St Louis Derby and he got a 103 Beyer in that one. I thought Lawyer Ron pretty much ran his race yesterday. Strong Contender was just better that race. I don't know if he is a 10f horse or not. I do know you can't just take the Ky Derby and say based on those results a horse can't go 10f. There were lots of good horses run clunkers in that race who could go 10f. Hansel, Skip Away, Point Given, Tabasco Cat even Holy Bull who eventually won the Travers come to mind. I agree with the writer who stated the Cigar Mile may be a better goal than the BC Classic. And I also agree that going 10f, Lawyer Ron isn't in the same galaxy as Bernardini...but I don't think any other 3 year olds are either. I don't think any older horses are either for that matter.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Someone wanted to know who Lawyer Ron beat and was quite persistent...got the time??

Lewis Michael
Smokeyjonessutton
Point Determined...graded stakes winner
Steppenwolfer
Private Vow...graded stakes winner
HIgh Cotton...graded stakes winner
Simon Pure
Hyte Regency
Red Raymond
Mark of Success
Kip Deville
AP Warrior...graded stakes winner
Sharp Humor
Flashy Bull
Bob and John...graded stakes winner
Sinister Minister...graded stakes winner
Louisborg
Costa Rising
Saint Augustus
With a City...graded stakes winner
Music School
Keyed Entry...graded stakes winner
Cause to Believe...graded stakes winner
Sayhellotolarry
Well Said
Nob Hill Delite
Film Fortune
Celluloind Hero
Malameeze
Cielo Gold
More than Regal
LIke an Eagle
Casino Evil
Follow the Storm
Starspangled Gator
His Eyes

It's a meaningless list. My thoughts on the race. I dont' think McKee did the wrong thing. Trainers don't want horses to run loose on the lead anymore. What happened to Quincy Hamilton when he did that on Kip Deville?? I believe he was taken off the horse wasn't he? As others have said, the horse has rated in many races...even races he lead like the Risen Star. The connections said he rated very well in the St Louis Derby and he was way back early there as he was in the Rebel. For whatever reason he doesn't always do it. I think they felt they perhaps turned the corner last race and when he shot forward again...McKee I am sure was doing what he was instructed to do.

I like the horse. I don't know what the Beyer was, I am guessing that Strong Contender and Lawyer Ron will be in the 100 to 104 range perhaps? They aren't on the DRF leaderboard. The equibase figure for Lawyer Ron was a 107 which was right on the 108 he got for the St Louis Derby and he got a 103 Beyer in that one. I thought Lawyer Ron pretty much ran his race yesterday. Strong Contender was just better that race. I don't know if he is a 10f horse or not. I do know you can't just take the Ky Derby and say based on those results a horse can't go 10f. There were lots of good horses run clunkers in that race who could go 10f. Hansel, Skip Away, Point Given, Tabasco Cat even Holy Bull who eventually won the Travers come to mind. I agree with the writer who stated the Cigar Mile may be a better goal than the BC Classic. And I also agree that going 10f, Lawyer Ron isn't in the same galaxy as Bernardini...but I don't think any other 3 year olds are either. I don't think any older horses are either for that matter.

This list must include his derby run when like 1/2 field after being slaughted for 3/4 of a mile never asked their horses to run and save them for another day, thats why that list is meaningless

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by LOSE=GLUE

This list must include his derby run when like 1/2 field after being slaughted for 3/4 of a mile never asked their horses to run and save them for another day, thats why that list is meaningless

Exactly...it is meaningless, that happens every race pretty much. The question was asked who the horse beat. HE finished 12th that race, but he technically beat the 13th through 20th place finishers. Who knows how much he was asked to run either that race, perhaps he could have finished 10th or 11th and added a couple more to his extensive list!!!