Republican Senator in Massachusetts?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

If health care reform passes and makes it a right for Americans,
the case will be made that your rights are "granted to you by your government".

...and provided for you by your fellow citizens, who therefore have less rights than the recipients...so much for the "universal" health care coverage.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by joeydb

...and provided for you by your fellow citizens, who therefore have less rights than the recipients...so much for the "universal" health care coverage.

yea but the guy who jogs by the nearby McDonalds every morning and sees the customers super-sizing and the workers on smoke break can feel good he and other health conscious people are, for a large part, subsidizing those who are not. Only a bleeding heart idiot would think that is fair.

The reasoning by Obama & Co. of taxing 'Cadillac insurance plans' is a sure tip off this administration cares more about insuring all rather than having good insurance.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

yea but the guy who jogs by the nearby McDonalds every morning and sees the customers super-sizing and the workers on smoke break walks in is......

Bill Clinton!

[Riot]

If health care reform passes and makes it a right for Americans,
the case will be made that your rights are "granted to you by your government".

Originally Posted by joeydb

...and provided for you by your fellow citizens, who therefore have less rights than the recipients...so much for the "universal" health care coverage.

Huh? Everyone in America already has, and has had, "the right" to health care. There is no "granting of a new Constitutional right" in healthcare reform.

The "fellow citizens" in America already pay for everyone's healthcare via Medicad, the hard costs you are charged if you visit an ER and you are uninsured, and your insurance premiums if you are insured.

What healthcare reform is about is cost containment and improvement of the level of care all citizens receive.

Edit: and yeah, our rights are indeed "granted by our Government", within our Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc. And our government - usually - defends our intrinsic rights as citizens within this country.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

What healthcare reform is about is cost containment and improvement of the level of care all citizens receive.
.

That's why the plan calls for taxing 'Cadilac policies'?
Give me a break, healthcare reform has nothing to do with either cost containment or improvement and everything to do with control as in who gets what care and what they will pay for it. Ten years from now I expect people to be asking 'blackmarket bypass' or 'regular'?

[Riot]

That's why the plan calls for taxing 'Cadilac policies'?

Those are policies that not alot of people have, Dell. The ultra-expensive, super high-end, low deductable policies. And the "cadillac" part deals not with "improved care" (more care, better care) rather just giving the same care as other policies for a lower deductable type of thing, improve coverage for age, etc.

I'm not in favor of that, btw. But the other major way to pay, public option, was eliminated in the Senate bill.

Give me a break, healtcare reform has nothing to do with either cost containment or improvement and everything to do with control as in who gets what care and what they will pay for it. Ten years from now I expect people to be asking 'blackmarket bypass' or 'regular'?

Yeah, "who gets what" care is important - all people should get treated for their diabetes on a regular basis, rather than just getting treatment in the ER when they need an amputation or they go ketoacidotic.

And yes, "what they will pay for it" - cost containment is a huge deal. The problem is the Senate bill was stripped down to fairly useless crap. The House bill is better.

Your last sentence about bypasses makes no sense at all, c'mon. There is healthcare rationing now in this country, that's for sure. The point is to eliminate it. Not start it up.

As an aside, there have been a couple reports from Haiti, people waking up post-surgery having had limbs amputated - and getting immediately upset asking "but how will I pay for it, I have no money"? They didn't seek care, they didn't expect to get medical care, as they didn't have money and that's the way it works there. There is little "free ER' in Haiti for the poor.

But we Americans, and French, and British, Canadians, etc - we don't let people die just because they don't have money. Well, most of us feel that way.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Your last sentence about bypasses makes no sense at all, c'mon. There is healthcare rationing now in this country, that's for sure. The point is to eliminate it. Not start it up.
.

so make a healthy person subsidize the insurance of a un-healthy or non-productive citizen so both can get into the same line for care? yea that sounds fair and a solution to eliminate it. BTW since you seem to be so familiar w/the bill what happens to the illegal who shows up at the ER since he's not included in the bill?

[Riot]

so make a healthy person subsidize the insurance of a un-healthy or non-productive citizen so both can get into the same line for care?

Dell, we do that now - if you don't have insurance, and go to the doctor or ER, you pay premium high price, your price is higher than those with insurance, and that covers the shortfall from everyone else. The prices set by the ER and docs are set to cover those patients without insurance reimbursement. The costs of everyone paying for the non-covered are now built into the system.

I would rather the low-income person buy inexpensive coverage themselves, and pay for it themselves, and get them off Medicaid, rather than have me subsidize them via Medicaid taxes and increased costs for me because they don't have insurance.

yea that sounds fair and a solution to eliminate it. BTW since you seem to be so familiar w/the bill what happens to the illegal who shows up at the ER since he's not included in the bill?

The exact same thing that happens now. He gets emergency only minimal overage and we pay for it. There is no provision for someone - including you or I - to have to show proof of American citizenship prior to receiving emergency medical treatment. We don't have to do that now, and we won't in the future.

The bills say specifically that illegal immigrants will NOT be able to buy into the government insurance pools (if any pools remains in the final bill, which I doubt). I don't know how they would check that, probably the very same way insurance companies now check for illegal aliens when those illegal aliens try and buy private insurance policies.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Dell, we do that now - if you don't have insurance, and go to the doctor or ER, you pay premium high price, your price is higher than those with insurance, and that covers the shortfall from everyone else. The prices set by the ER and docs are set to cover those patients without insurance reimbursement. The costs of everyone paying for the non-covered are now built into the system.

I would rather the low-income person buy inexpensive coverage themselves, and pay for it themselves, and get them off Medicaid, rather than have me subsidize them via Medicaid taxes and increased costs for me because they don't have insurance.



The exact same thing that happens now. He gets emergency only minimal overage and we pay for it. There is no provision for someone - including you or I - to have to show proof of American citizenship prior to receiving emergency medical treatment. We don't have to do that now, and we won't in the future.

The bills say specifically that illegal immigrants will NOT be able to buy into the government insurance pools (if any pools remains in the final bill, which I doubt). I don't know how they would check that, probably the very same way insurance companies now check for illegal aliens when those illegal aliens try and buy private insurance policies.

so we're going to force legals to pay for insurance but illegals remain the same (you know go they go to the emergency room and we pay for it). That's worse than the health conscious paying for the 'don't give a crap' crowd.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Riot

Dell, we do that now - if you don't have insurance, and go to the doctor or ER, you pay premium high price, your price is higher than those with insurance, and that covers the shortfall from everyone else. The prices set by the ER and docs are set to cover those patients without insurance reimbursement. The costs of everyone paying for the non-covered are now built into the system.

I would rather the low-income person buy inexpensive coverage themselves, and pay for it themselves, and get them off Medicaid, rather than have me subsidize them via Medicaid taxes and increased costs for me because they don't have insurance.



The exact same thing that happens now. He gets emergency only minimal overage and we pay for it. There is no provision for someone - including you or I - to have to show proof of American citizenship prior to receiving emergency medical treatment. We don't have to do that now, and we won't in the future.

The bills say specifically that illegal immigrants will NOT be able to buy into the government insurance pools (if any pools remains in the final bill, which I doubt). I don't know how they would check that, probably the very same way insurance companies now check for illegal aliens when those illegal aliens try and buy private insurance policies.

We shouldn't pay for it. Problem solved. No care.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

so make a healthy person subsidize the insurance of a un-healthy or non-productive citizen so both can get into the same line for care? yea that sounds fair and a solution to eliminate it. BTW since you seem to be so familiar w/the bill what happens to the illegal who shows up at the ER since he's not included in the bill?

More than likely this country will treat the illegals just like this country wont do anything about the illegals and keep on kissing thier ass'. Glad I dont have to deal with this insurance.

[SOREHOOF]

[quote=Riot

Edit: and yeah, our rights are indeed "granted by our Government", within our Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc. And our government - usually - defends our intrinsic rights as citizens within this country.[/QUOTE]
My God Riot! Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? Our rights are NOT "granted" by the Govt. here in America. We are "endowed by our Creator certain inalienable rights". "to secure these rights Governments are instituted among Men deriving their just powers from the Governed"
Let me help you out a little.
http://www.usconstitution.net/declar.html