Trainers Love the New Track at Hollywood

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GPK

Well....I am normally good for being right about one or two things a year.

He has turned into a very good racehorse...

I trust things are well for you?

Kev, You and I are both fans of English Channel. As you know, I tried to buy him before anyone had heard of him. I tried to buy him back when he was only an allowance horse. Even though we are both fans of the horse, you know as well as I do that he's not the best turf horse in the country. He just ran 4th in two of his last three races. He didn't have any real excuse in either race. He would have obviously liked a little more pace in his last race but you can't use that as an excuse because he was actually losing ground in the stretch. As big a fan as youa re of the horse, I'm sure you would be the first to admit that he's not the best turf horse in the country right now.

[repent]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Kev, You and I are both fans of English Channel. As you know, I tried to buy him before anyone had heard of him. I tried to buy him back when he was only an allowance horse. Even though we are both fans of the horse, you know as well as I do that he's not the best turf horse in the country. He just ran 4th in two of his last three races. He didn't have any real excuse in either race. He would have obviously liked a little more pace in his last race but you can't use that as an excuse because he was actually losing ground in the stretch. As big a fan as youa re of the horse, I'm sure you would be the first to admit that he's not the best turf horse in the country right now.

oh,
so you throw out the Woodforf Reserve and UN?
wtf are you thinking?
on firm ground, he is the best 12f US turf horse.
Cacique is a really nice horse and might be better on both of Belmont's turf courses, but EC has the better chance to win at 12f at CD.


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[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by repent

oh,
so you throw out the Woodforf Reserve and UN?
wtf are you thinking?
on firm ground, he is the best 12f US turf horse.
Cacique is a really nice horse and might be better on both of Belmont's turf courses, but EC has the better chance to win at 12f at CD.


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I'm not throwing out those races but if he's so great he wouldn't be running 4th every other race. You can hardly use the excuse about firm ground. EC's record is better when the turf is not firm. His win in that $400,000 race at Churchill in May was on turf labeled "soft". His win in the stakes race at Gulfstream this year was on turf labeled "soft". Last year, he won three races on tracks labeled either "good" or "yielding". His record on turf courses labeled "firm" is not nearly as good.

[Danzig]

but weren't both of english channels losses at 10f? remember sulamani in the arl million a couple years back? class of the field, but the distance was far from his best. three horses finished ahead of him i believe.

[repent]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I'm not throwing out those races but if he's so great he wouldn't be running 4th every other race. You can hardly use the excuse about firm ground. EC's record is better when the turf is not firm. His win in that $400,000 race at Churchill in May was on turf labeled "soft". His win in the stakes race at Gulfstream this year was on turf labeled "soft". Last year, he won three races on tracks labeled either "good" or "yielding". His record on turf courses labeled "firm" is not nearly as good.

you misunderstand me again.
I did not say he needed or was better on firm.

I said, in those conditions, he is America's best turf horse.
freaking read what I type w/out reading into it what you want.

and that 4th in the Manhattan was a very good effort.
all 4 finished together.

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[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by repent

you misunderstand me again.
I did not say he needed or was better on firm.

I said, in those conditions, he is America's best turf horse.
freaking read what I type w/out reading into it what you want.

and that 4th in the Manhattan was a very good effort.
all 4 finished together.

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How was his 4th place finish in New york a good effort? He lost to Silver Whistle and Sabre d' Argent that day. I don't think that effort would get the job done in the BC Turf.

By the way, the race in Dubai was 1 1/4 miles.

With regard to the Arlington Million, The Tin Man was obviously the best horse. Cacique was within a neck of him at the quarter pole and then Tin Man blew his away. It would be one thing if The Tin Man was out there with a 3 length lead and then barely held off the closers. That's not what happened. He pulled away from them in the stretch. He had a better late kick than the closers. He would have won the race no matter what the pace scenario was.

[repent]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

How was his 4th place finish in New york a good effort? He lost to Silver Whistle and Sabre d' Argent that day. I don't think that effort would get the job done in the BC Turf.

By the way, the race in Dubai was 1 1/4 miles.

With regard to the Arlington Million, The Tin Man was obviously the best horse. Cacique was within a neck of him at the quarter pole and then Tin Man blew his away. It would be one thing if The Tin Man was out there with a 3 length lead and then barely held off the closers. That's not what happened. He pulled away from them in the stretch. He had a better late kick than the closers. He would have won the race no matter what the pace scenario was.

wtf are you talking about?

English Channel lost to Cacique, Relaxed Gesture, and Grey Swallow in the Manhattan.
you are losing it pal.

and you honestly think the Dubai Duty Free is run at 10f?????
get some help. its just short of 1800 meters.
why the hell would they run the Dubai Duty Free at 10f and the Dubai Sheema Classic at 12f?
they would not and nobody besides you would even think it was a possibility.


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[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by repent

wtf are you talking about?

English Channel lost to Cacique, Relaxed Gesture, and Grey Swallow in the Manhattan.
you are losing it pal.

and you honestly think the Dubai Duty Free is run at 10f?????
get some help. its just short of 1800 meters.
why the hell would they run the Dubai Duty Free at 10f and the Dubai Sheema Classic at 12f?
they would not and nobody besides you would even think it was a possibility.


Repent

I was looking at the post positions instead of the program numbers. You are right that Relaxed Gesture ran 2nd and Grey Swallow ran 3rd in that race. That's really impressive. Relaxed Gesture is a real world beater.

The Duty Free race is shorter than I thought. It's about 1 1/8 miles.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I like English Channel, a lot. But it depends on how you look at it. I guess since Aragorn and Cacique were originally Euro's he could be considered our best. But, if you think of Cacique and Aragorn as Americans now, EC is 3rd at best. No way EC beats Aragorn in a mile to 1 1/8 race, and after his last I really think Cacique has turned the corner. Cacique hasn't thrown in a clunker like EC has.

He's not as good as The Tin Man right now. Look at what The Tin Man has done this year. He's 4 for 5 with a win in the Arlingto Million and a 2nd to David Junior in a $5 million race. You can't even compare EC to the The Tin Man right now.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah you know, I keep forgetting about him. The Tin Man has been awesome this year, and Mandella deserves a lot of credit for what he has done. I personally think that Cacique might be better than TTM, but he did beat him head to head.

They were literally head and head at the quarter pole. The Tin Man totally blew him away from there. It was no contest. He had a 3 length lead on him by the time they hit the 1/16th pole. It shows you who has the better acceleration of the two horses.

[repent]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I like English Channel, a lot. But it depends on how you look at it. I guess since Aragorn and Cacique were originally Euro's he could be considered our best. But, if you think of Cacique and Aragorn as Americans now, EC is 3rd at best. No way EC beats Aragorn in a mile to 1 1/8 race, and after his last I really think Cacique has turned the corner. Cacique hasn't thrown in a clunker like EC has.

well,
Aragorn is awesome.
not going to run against EC in the BC, but yes, oif they met at a midde distance of 9f, Aragorn would win.

Cacique is a really nice horse who I really thought was the best middle distance turf horse..
Kev will tell you I always said he was better than EC even after the Woodford Reserve.
but EC's Manhattan was impressive to me (even in defeat) and the UN was awesome.
that made me a believer.


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[repent]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I agree, even after the Woodford I thought he was better. His UN was an awesome effort, but I think Cacique negotiates the 1 1/2 better than EC does BC day.

ok,
thats interesting and at least a debatable subject(not like the distance of the Dubai Duty Free).

see,
I and most ppl(including Frankel) thought Cacique was a miler/10f horse.
if you had asked me in June where Cacque would run in November, I would have said the BC Mile.
but he ran well at 11 in the MOW and I think(from watching the post race interview) that it even surprised Frankel how well he appreciated the distance.

maybe he is going to like 12 more than most of us thought.
i would not be surprised and I expect that he wlll run well.
in the end though, I think he can run the race of his life and still lose to the Euros(the real ones).

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[repent]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I would agree there also. But the question is who comes? To early to tell, we all know what a monster Hurricane Run is. I hear Shirrocco is looking at the Classic, as is Dylan Thomas.

yeah,
but the bottom line is that Coolmore wants to win this race.
whether its HRun or DThomas, or whoever, they will have at least 1 strong contender.
Shirocco could go in the BCC, but I bet they come to their senses and try to defend their BCT title.

there will be others also coming over.
there almost always are, unless of the course the Breeders Cup does something stupid like host the event at a track like Lone Star Park.

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