mr president

[SOREHOOF]

A lot of people think the Democrats agenda would be bad for the country, and should be strongly opposed by any and all measures.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

A lot of people think the Democrats agenda would be bad for the country, and should be strongly opposed by any and all measures.

I understand that point. The question becomes, then, is it abuse or misuse of the rules, or clever playing within them, to change the way the Senate is supposed to work constitutionally?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

I understand that point. The question becomes, then, is it abuse or misuse of the rules, or clever playing within them, to change the way the Senate is supposed to work constitutionally?

IF YOU are honest with yourself, you know this is fundamentally wrong.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

IF YOU are honest with yourself, you know this is fundamentally wrong.

What is fundamentally wrong? I don't understand what you are referring to.

Originally Posted by Sorehoof
A lot of people think the Democrats agenda would be bad for the country, and should be strongly opposed by any and all measures.

Originally Posted by Riot
I understand that point. The question becomes, then, is it abuse or misuse of the rules, or clever playing within them, to change the way the Senate is supposed to work constitutionally?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

What is fundamentally wrong? I don't understand what you are referring to.

the answer to your post to Sorehoof! Either option you give in the answer is WRONG! This isn't some game(although politics is probably considered sport in D.C.) You appear to be OK with this.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

the answer to your post to Sorehoof! Either option you give in the answer is WRONG! This isn't some game(although politics is probably considered sport in D.C.) You appear to be OK with this.

?? Sorry, I am still missing your point, I guess. I'm not okay with what is happening now, because I consider the GOP to be doing massive political game-playing at the expense of the way the Senate is supposed to work.

Hoof made the point some think all legal measures (and fillibuster is certainly within the rules) should be used to oppose legislation someone doesn't want to pass.

To me, it is perfectly acceptable to work within the rules, within parlimentary procedure. The Senate is designed to pass legislation based upon a simple majority. Fillibuster is allowable and legal within the rules (although it's covered and changable by Senate rules)

What is happening currently, however, is unprecedented (and the Dems increased it's use in the last session, too, don't ignore that) in that fillibuster, and the requiring of a cloture vote of 60 to end discussion and have a vote on an issue, is the "new norm" for virtually every bill.

In other words, bills in the Senate should be able to pass by a 51-49 vote. That is how the Senate works (remember all states, even tiny ones, have the same number of votes as the big states, two).

The current Senate minority party, however, is forcing virtually all bills to have a 60-vote majority (the number of votes necessary to approve cloture and allow a bill to exit fillibuster and then be voted upon)

The minority party is, practically speaking, changing the Senate rules to require all legislation have 60 votes to pass.

What do you think about that?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

?? Sorry, I am still missing your point, I guess. I'm not okay with what is happening now, because I consider the GOP to be doing massive political game-playing at the expense of the way the Senate is supposed to work.

Hoof made the point some think all legal measures (and fillibuster is certainly within the rules) should be used to oppose legislation someone doesn't want to pass.

To me, it is perfectly acceptable to work within the rules, within parlimentary procedure. The Senate is designed to pass legislation based upon a simple majority. Fillibuster is allowable and legal within the rules (although it's covered and changable by Senate rules)

What is happening currently, however, is unprecedented (and the Dems increased it's use in the last session, too, don't ignore that) in that fillibuster, and the requiring of a cloture vote of 60 to end discussion and have a vote on an issue, is the "new norm" for virtually every bill.

In other words, bills in the Senate should be able to pass by a 51-49 vote. That is how the Senate works (remember all states, even tiny ones, have the same number of votes as the big states, two).

The current Senate minority party, however, is forcing virtually all bills to have a 60-vote majority (the number of votes necessary to approve cloture and allow a bill to exit fillibuster and then be voted upon)

The minority party is, practically speaking, changing the Senate rules to require all legislation have 60 votes to pass.

What do you think about that?

So what you are saying is that the Dems are "letting" the GOP use tactics that are not legal? No of course not, they ARE legal and perfectly acceptable to both parties hence thier use.

So the Dems were content to sit on thier hands and just go along with whatever was presented when they were the minority party? Or did they use whatever tools at thier disposal to get thier point across?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

?? Sorry, I am still missing your point, I guess. I'm not okay with what is happening now, because I consider the GOP to be doing massive political game-playing at the expense of the way the Senate is supposed to work.

Hoof made the point some think all legal measures (and fillibuster is certainly within the rules) should be used to oppose legislation someone doesn't want to pass.

To me, it is perfectly acceptable to work within the rules, within parlimentary procedure. The Senate is designed to pass legislation based upon a simple majority. Fillibuster is allowable and legal within the rules (although it's covered and changable by Senate rules)

What is happening currently, however, is unprecedented (and the Dems increased it's use in the last session, too, don't ignore that) in that fillibuster, and the requiring of a cloture vote of 60 to end discussion and have a vote on an issue, is the "new norm" for virtually every bill.

In other words, bills in the Senate should be able to pass by a 51-49 vote. That is how the Senate works (remember all states, even tiny ones, have the same number of votes as the big states, two).

The current Senate minority party, however, is forcing virtually all bills to have a 60-vote majority (the number of votes necessary to approve cloture and allow a bill to exit fillibuster and then be voted upon)

The minority party is, practically speaking, changing the Senate rules to require all legislation have 60 votes to pass.

What do you think about that?

The GOP is severely handicapped by both houses in Congress being held by Dems. The fillibuster threat is the last straw of defense against the "Unholy Trinity" and their clandestine plans.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Riot

What is fundamentally wrong? I don't understand what you are referring to.

Ya gotta do what'cha gotta do. Anything the dems do is o.k. Evertything the repubs do isn't, even if it is the same thing?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

Ya gotta do what'cha gotta do. Anything the dems do is o.k. Evertything the repubs do isn't, even if it is the same thing?

I wouldn't mind if the GOP fillibustered healthcare reform (massive important game-changing bill). That's the point of fillibuster - to force debate, and not allow things to go through without debate (because the Senate only requires a simple majority to pass)

It's the fillibustering everything that is wearing! The fillbuster used to be rare, and has become common only recently. Yeah, the Dems increased it last congress to the point of abuse in some instances, but now the GOP has taken that to the max and is using it for virtually everything.

Our Senate should not be ground to a halt, legislatively. That's why Senators are elected, to reflect the will of the people as to what they want accomplished by the government.

The people elected the majority party, and expect them to pass what they said they would. Not to allow the minority party to rule the roost and control what legislation gets passed.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

I wouldn't mind if the GOP fillibustered healthcare reform (massive important game-changing bill). That's the point of fillibuster - to force debate, and not allow things to go through without debate (because the Senate only requires a simple majority to pass)

It's the fillibustering everything that is wearing! The fillbuster used to be rare, and has become common only recently. Yeah, the Dems increased it last congress to the point of abuse in some instances, but now the GOP has taken that to the max and is using it for virtually everything.

Our Senate should not be ground to a halt, legislatively. That's why Senators are elected, to reflect the will of the people as to what they want accomplished by the government.

The people elected the majority party, and expect them to pass what they said they would. Not to allow the minority party to rule the roost and control what legislation gets passed.

No that is why individual Senators are elected, not the Senate as a whole.