The Hawk elected

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GPK

Dude, the guy played baseball for 37 years...finally decided to retire at age 62 and only won 8 gold gloves. And, he played for the Cubs at one time, so he couldn't have been that good.

Any player that wins a MVP when he is on the worst team in baseball should get in automatically. If that doesn't tell you how much better he was then anyone at the time, on what some will say one leg, then I don't know what will.

[SniperSB23]

Players with 400+ Home Runs and 300+ Stolen Bases:

Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Andre Dawson

A-Rod will be there with 3 more stolen bases. Not bad company.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Players with 400+ Home Runs and 300+ Stolen Bases:

Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Andre Dawson

A-Rod will be there with 3 more stolen bases. Not bad company.

Andre had an absolute rifle arm, second only to Clemente probably. good for him to finally get to the HOF

[Rudeboyelvis]

Player Votes Percentage
Andre Dawson 420 77.9%
Bert Blyleven 400 74.2%
Roberto Alomar 397 73.7%
Jack Morris 282 52.3%
Barry Larkin 278 51.6%
Lee Smith 255 47.3%
Edgar Martinez 195 36.2%
Tim Raines 164 30.4%
Mark McGwire 128 23.7%
Alan Trammell 121 22.4%
Fred McGriff 116 21.5%
Don Mattingly 87 16.1%
Dave Parker 82 15.2%
Dale Murphy 63 11.7%
Harold Baines 33 6.1%
Andres Galarraga 22 4.1%
Robin Ventura 7 1.3%
Ellis Burks 2 0.4%
Eric Karros 2 0.4%
Kevin Appier 1 0.2%
Pat Hentgen 1 0.2%
David Segui 1 0.2%
Mike Jackson 0 0%
Ray Lankford 0 0%
Shane Reynolds 0 0%
Todd Zeile 0 0%

[miraja2]

As a lifelong Dodgers fan, I find it absolutely astounding (and kind of funny) that there were TWO people who voted for Eric Karros to be a HOFer. The guys that received one vote are funny too, but at least they can be written off as simply the work of a lone nut. But how there is more than one nut-job that thinks Karros belongs I'll never know.

[randallscott35]

Segui got jobbed.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Anyone on that list below Dale Murphy doesn't deserve to sweep the floors of the HoF, much less be enshrined in it.... roughly 70 wasted votes.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by miraja2

As a lifelong Dodgers fan, I find it absolutely astounding (and kind of funny) that there were TWO people who voted for Eric Karros to be a HOFer. The guys that received one vote are funny too, but at least they can be written off as simply the work of a lone nut. But how there is more than one nut-job that thinks Karros belongs I'll never know.

5 people didn't even vote!! A vote should be mandatory.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

5 people didn't even vote!! A vote should be mandatory.

I don't think it should be mandatory if you didn't think anyone was HOF worthy. That being said I think everyone knows Alomar is a HOFer, the silliness of not voting for guys on their first ballot is idiocy. Even Cal Ripken (98.53%) and Nolan Ryan (98.79%) had people not vote for them on their first ballots cause of those idiots.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Andre had an absolute rifle arm, second only to Clemente probably. good for him to finally get to the HOF

He had a very good arm and this is pretty subjective but probably had the third best arm in a Montreal behind Ellis Valentine and Vlad. Dave Parker also had a great arm before he needed nutrisystem and no one I have ever seen has a stronger, more accurate arm than Ichiro.

[Cannon Shell]

Really a shame that BB came so close without getting in. And Roberto Alomar is one of the top 10 2nd baseman of all time and probably will get in next year.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Really a shame that BB came so close without getting in. And Roberto Alomar is one of the top 10 2nd baseman of all time and probably will get in next year.

They both will be in next year....

I heard today that there is alot of voters that say since Ted Williams did not get in on his first ballot that no one should get in...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

They both will be in next year....

I heard today that there is alot of voters that say since Ted Williams did not get in on his first ballot that no one should get in...

Yeah right like a lot of voters today ever saw Ted Williams play...

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Roberto Alomar is one of the top 10 2nd baseman of all time and probably will get in next year.

He certainly deserves it.
He was close enough in the voting that I wonder if he would have gotten in if it were not for the "spitting incident." It seems possible that a few guys may have decided that should disqualify him from being a first-ballot guy.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Players with 400+ Home Runs and 300+ Stolen Bases:

Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Andre Dawson

A-Rod will be there with 3 more stolen bases. Not bad company.

Good point!

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Scav

Any player that wins a MVP when he is on the worst team in baseball should get in automatically. If that doesn't tell you how much better he was then anyone at the time, on what some will say one leg, then I don't know what will.

Yeah, except he didn't deserve to win the MVP that year. I still don't understand how the hell he did.
A .328 OBP? For an MVP? That's terrible.
Tony Gwynn's batting average that year was over 40 points higher than Andre Dawson's on-base percentage. That's ridiculous. And Gwynn stole 50+ bases on top of that.
Jack Clark's numbers were also a lot better than Dawson's that year too. He hit for roughly the same average, but drew something like 100 more walks than Dawson while still putting up good power numbers (his OPS was MUCH higher than Dawson's). All Dawson did that year was hit a lot of home runs on a really bad team.
I guess he still probably deserves to be in the HOF though, so congrats to him.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Yeah, except he didn't deserve to win the MVP that year. I still don't understand how the hell he did.
A .328 OBP? For an MVP? That's terrible.
Tony Gwynn's batting average that year was over 40 points higher than Andre Dawson's on-base percentage. That's ridiculous. And Gwynn stole 50+ bases on top of that.
Jack Clark's numbers were also a lot better than Dawson's that year too. He hit for roughly the same average, but drew something like 100 more walks than Dawson while still putting up good power numbers (his OPS was MUCH higher than Dawson's). All Dawson did that year was hit a lot of home runs on a really bad team.
I guess he still probably deserves to be in the HOF though, so congrats to him.

Tough to get too upset about a guy winning MVP that hit 49 HRs, drove in 137 RBIs, and won a Gold Glove. There is a solid argument for Gwynn that year although the 137 to 54 RBI margin is tough to overcome but no one ever confused Jack Clark with a gold glover. While he put up good numbers offensively he was never helping his team in the field.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Tough to get too upset about a guy winning MVP that hit 49 HRs, drove in 137 RBIs, and won a Gold Glove. There is a solid argument for Gwynn that year although the 137 to 54 RBI margin is tough to overcome but no one ever confused Jack Clark with a gold glover. While he put up good numbers offensively he was never helping his team in the field.

It just irritates me that voters pay more attention to a stat like RBI than to a stat like OPS (or at least the stats that go into OPS before the number was tracked). To me, OPS gives a much clearer indication of the kind of year a guy had offensively than a team-dependent stat like runs scored or RBI. Dawson's OPS in '87 wasn't bad....but it was hardly MVP worthy in my estimation.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by miraja2

It just irritates me that voters pay more attention to a stat like RBI than to a stat like OPS (or at least the stats that go into OPS before the number was tracked). To me, OPS gives a much clearer indication of the kind of year a guy had offensively than a team-dependent stat like runs scored or RBI. Dawson's OPS in '87 wasn't bad....but it was hardly MVP worthy in my estimation.

That is changing, OPS is definitely very strongly considered when people are looking at MVP's now.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

That is changing, OPS is definitely very strongly considered when people are looking at MVP's now.

As it should be.

To illustrate again how horrible Dawson's .328 OBP is for an MVP:
Every other NL MVP in the last 50 years had a OBP at least 14 points higher than .328, and most were significantly higher. Furthermore, the guys that finished in the ten spots behind Dawson in the MVP voting that year also all had OBP's at least 14 points higher than Dawson's....and again....most were much higher.
Now obviously OPB isn't the only thing that matters, but to me the MVP of the league should be able to get on base a lot when he comes up. Dawson did not.