All of a sudden the editors from Bloodhorse...

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Look like the sharpest collection of analytical and thoroughbred handicapping minds ever assembled.

I know this appeared in another thread ... but it truly deserves its own thread...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../horse.racing/

Look who is #20.

Tough crowd here at DT. Aside from 19 & 20, I think it's a decent list. And if you stretch "Top Horse" to something beyond "Fastest Horse", even #20 is acceptable.

Any list that puts the Derby-hyped horses below non-household-name older horses like Invasor, Tiznow and Ghostzapper is fine with me, especially one that leaves Bernardini off the list.

Page 2 was also okay, IMO, though Borel's honorable mention was a big stretch, to say the least. I didn't even mind being reminded of my near miss on Closing Argument at 72-1. (it's not a redboard if you don't collect, is it?).

I'd be interested in your own answers to the various categories on page 2, and how far down you'd put the answers in SI's list.

--Dunbar

[Sightseek]

Bellamy Road deserves the Honorable mention for Best Runaway Performance behind Rachel Alexandra's Kentucky Oaks.

Afleet Alex's Preakness deserves the Holy Mackeral! How Did He Do That Award.

[Linny]

High Chaparral deat heated with Johan? No wonder Mill Ridge wont take my calls.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

if you stretch "Top Horse" to something beyond "Fastest Horse", even #20 is acceptable.

If you stretch it to mean something other than a horse that was fast.....or won a meaningful race.....or faced a horse that ran as if it possessed 4 legs....then.....let me think............nope. There are STILL dozens of other horses more deserving.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by miraja2

If you stretch it to mean something other than a horse that was fast.....or won a meaningful race.....or faced a horse that ran as if it possessed 4 legs....then.....let me think............nope. There are STILL dozens of other horses more deserving.

How about I just stretch it to mean a horse that raced 19 times without ever finding an excuse to not win? How many more deserving are there then?

Pepper's Pride wouldn't be in my own "Top 20", but I'm not offended by someone putting her at #20 in his own list.

--Dunbar

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Tough crowd here at DT. Aside from 19 & 20, I think it's a decent list. And if you stretch "Top Horse" to something beyond "Fastest Horse", even #20 is acceptable.

Any list that puts the Derby-hyped horses below non-household-name older horses like Invasor, Tiznow and Ghostzapper is fine with me, especially one that leaves Bernardini off the list.

Page 2 was also okay, IMO, though Borel's honorable mention was a big stretch, to say the least. I didn't even mind being reminded of my near miss on Closing Argument at 72-1. (it's not a redboard if you don't collect, is it?).

I'd be interested in your own answers to the various categories on page 2, and how far down you'd put the answers in SI's list.

1 through 18 is pretty damn bad. He opted to make a complete fool of himself with #20.

People who don't follow horse racing religiously will see a list like that and trust it - after all - we are talking about America's sports authority SI.

I don't care one bit that the writer and editor don't know Johar or that they think Saint Liam was unraced at age three - when in fact he made nine starts at age 3.

The real travesty is that you have a writer who specializes in fluff pieces and human interest stories trying his hand at something that requires hardcore analytical and handicapping skills. On top of that - you have the nations most trusted sports magazine willing to publish it.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

1 through 18 is pretty damn bad. He opted to make a complete fool of himself with #20.

I think 1-18 is a decent list. If you and say 10 other knowledgeable posters here independently put up "Top 18" lists, I'm guessing the SI list would not stick out as the odd-list-out.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

People who don't follow horse racing religiously will see a list like that and trust it - after all - we are talking about America's sports authority SI.

People who don't follow horseracing religiously will spend at most 10 seconds on that list, and they will immediately forget any horse whose name they don't recognize, which is all but maybe Funny Cide, Smarty Jones, Afleet Alex, Big Brown, and, possibly-but-I-doubt-it, this year's fillies.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't care one bit that the writer and editor don't know Johar or that they think Saint Liam was unraced at age three - when in fact he made nine starts at age 3.

I'm willing to forgive the mis-info on St. Liam. At least he INCLUDED St. Liam, a horse whose name less than 0.1% of sports fans outside of this board would even recognize.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The real travesty is that you have a writer who specializes in fluff pieces and human interest stories trying his hand at something that requires hardcore analytical and handicapping skills. On top of that - you have the nations most trusted sports magazine willing to publish it.

Look, this isn't health care or climate change. "travesty" is a little strong. It's a Top 20 list. People make these lists at the end of a year or end of a decade. It gives us something to argue about. We should be delighted that SI even puts together a top 20 horse list.

--Dunbar

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Look, this isn't health care or climate change.

I know as much about those two topics as this SI writer does about handicapping.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I know as much about those two topics as this SI writer does about handicapping.

Maybe you should learn more about politics....then see if you still vote for the Dem's.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I pay more attention to politics than you think. I might be the only living person under age 30 who watched every single debate on CSPAN leading into the '04 Iowa Primary.

[chucklestheclown]

Lost In The Fog would have been on my list, but at the expense of Funny Cide over poor Pepper's Pride.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I think 1-18 is a decent list. If you and say 10 other knowledgeable posters here independently put up "Top 18" lists, I'm guessing the SI list would not stick out as the odd-list-out.

I'd be VERY hard pressed to imagine anyone putting up a list with Curlin and Zenyatta first and second ... and Mineshaft, Bernardini, Medaglia D' Oro, and Congaree all not included in the top 17.

It's as if the author slept through the part of the decade when racing was better in the two glamour divisions (3yo males going long on dirt & older males going long on dirt)

However - it wasn't a top 18 list ... it was a top 20 list... and Pepper's Pride was included over several horses who would have beaten her by double digits lengths on their off day.

How do you think Medaglia D' Oro would do racing against nothing but New Mexico breds his entire career? How do you think he would do matched up against this ....

[cakes44]

Putting Pepper's Pride on that list is the equivilant of including Sioux Falls and/or Mount Union in the discussion of best college football teams of the decade.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Putting Pepper's Pride on that list is the equivilant of including Sioux Falls and/or Mount Union in the discussion of best college football teams of the decade.

That would be the case if you included her in the top 20 female horses of the decade.

[Gander]

The first half of the decade was far superior in every category with the exception of the filly and mare division from the past 2 years. 2001-2002 was better than anything we saw from 2005 to now.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'd be VERY hard pressed to imagine anyone putting up a list with Curlin and Zenyatta first and second ... and Mineshaft, Bernardini, Medaglia D' Oro, and Congaree all not included in the top 17.

It's as if the author slept through the part of the decade when racing was better in the two glamour divisions (3yo males going long on dirt & older males going long on dirt)

However - it wasn't a top 18 list ... it was a top 20 list... and Pepper's Pride was included over several horses who would have beaten her by double digits lengths on their off day.

How do you think Medaglia D' Oro would do racing against nothing but New Mexico breds his entire career? How do you think he would do matched up against this ....

Well, she was 38/1 against PP in that race you circled.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'd be VERY hard pressed to imagine anyone putting up a list with Curlin and Zenyatta first and second ... and Mineshaft, Bernardini, Medaglia D' Oro, and Congaree all not included in the top 17.

Steve Crist saw fit to put Curlin 2nd in his best-of-decade list, and said Zenyatta would probably have been somewhere between 4th and 7th if he had made a full top-10. He also indicated that a good argument could be made for making Curlin #1.

Medaglia D' Oro and Congaree got no mention at all, though Bernadini did get 3rd best 3-yr-old of the decade. (Well, Crist isn't perfect either.)

Here's what Crist wrote about Curlin:

2. Curlin in many ways deserves top billing. He was the champion of the decade's strongest 3-year-old crop, returned with a championship season at 4, became the first two-time Horse of the Year since Cigar, and became the first horse to earn $10 million. In terms of quantifiable accomplishments, Curlin was the Horse of the 2000's - but I think there might have been just one better racehorse:

(bold emphasis added)

--Dunbar

[The Indomitable DrugS]

At least Crist didn't include Pepper's Pride.... surprisingly.

Medaglia D'Oro, Congaree, Candy Ride, and Pleasantly Perfect were all defeated by Mineshaft for an eclipse award in '03 - since Crist was only rating eclipse awards winners - they couldn't get a mention.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Medaglia D'Oro, Congaree, Candy Ride, and Pleasantly Perfect were all defeated by Mineshaft for an eclipse award in '03 - since Crist was only rating eclipse awards winners - they couldn't get a mention.

You're right. I jumped right over that qualification in my rush to see the rankings.

--Dunbar