Why does this feel like a mistake...

[Riot]

People actually complaining about, and dissing, TJC looking at the injury statistics for 84% of flat racing in North America for the past year.

Unbelievable.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

People actually complaining about, and dissing, TJC looking at the injury statistics for 84% of flat racing in North America for the past year.

Unbelievable.

Not that shocking, actually, when you consider the kinds of things the researchers have reported thus far:

After months of monitoring in Hong Kong, they have identified some significant risk factors for horses that are at risk for suffering a bowed tendon.

Number 1 risk factor?

Previous bowed tendon.

Dig deeper, Dr. Watson...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Not that shocking, actually, when you consider the kinds of things the researchers have reported thus far:

After months of monitoring in Hong Kong, they have identified some significant risk factors for horses that are at risk for suffering a bowed tendon.

Number 1 risk factor?

Previous bowed tendon.

Dig deeper, Dr. Watson...

What's your point? You think objective research into the health and safety of the TB racehorse is wasted? Useless?

No wonder this industry is falling apart from the inside out.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

What's your point? You think objective research into the health and safety of the TB racehorse is wasted? Useless?

No wonder this industry is falling apart from the inside out.

Are you on you on your high horse or a high chair here?

Nobody said that the research was useless. But what sort of response do you think your going to get on a horse racing message from an ill-timed status report that let's us know they need about 5 more years before they can get viable information?

Becht, M., & Vingerhoets, A.J.J.M. (2002). Crying and mood change: A cross-cultural study. Cognition and Emotion, 16, 81–101.

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Cornelius, R.R. (2001). Crying and catharsis. In A.J.J.M. Vingerhoets & R.R.
Cornelius (Eds.), Adult crying: A biopsychosocial approach (pp. 199–212).
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Gross, J.J., Fredrickson, B.F., & Levenson, R.W. (1994).The psychophysiology of crying. Psychophysiology, 31, 460–468.

Hendriks, M.C.P., Rottenberg, J., & Vingerhoets, A.J.J.M. (2007). Can the distress-signal and arousal-reduction views of crying be reconciled? Evidence from the cardiovascular system. Emotion, 7, 458–463.

Lutz, T. (1999). Crying. The natural and cultural history of tears. New York: Norton Nelson, J.K. (2005). Seeing through tears: Crying and attachment. New York: Brunner-Routledge.

Rottenberg, J., Gross, J.J., Wilhelm, F.H., Najmi, S., & Gotlib, I.H. (2002). Crying threshold and intensity in major depressive disorder. Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 111, 302–312.

Rottenberg, J., Wilhelm, F.H., Gross, J.J., & Gotlib, I.H. (2003). Vagal rebound during resolution of tearful crying episodes among depressed and nondepressed individuals. Psychophysiology, 40, 1–6.

Rottenberg, J., Cevaal, A., & Vingerhoets, A.J.J.M. (2008). Do mood disorders alter crying? A pilot investigation. Depression and Anxiety, 25, E9–E15.

Rottenberg, J., Bylsma, L.M., Wolvin, V., & Vingerhoets, A.J.J.M. (2008). Tears of sorrow, tears of joy: An individual differences approach to crying in Dutch females. Personality and Individual Differences, 45, 367–372.

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[Riot]

Are you on you on your high horse or a high chair here?

Nobody said that the research was useless. But what sort of response do you think your going to get on a horse racing message from an ill-timed status report that let's us know they need about 5 more years before they can get viable information?

You and Chuck are sad. Before they have even looked at what they've assembled through 2009, before they have released one iota about what they've found, the rocket scientists here have already dismissed it as premature, rushed, useless, ill-timed, and a failure.

Yeah. And I'm the crybaby? You whiners are complaining about something not even done yet. Pre-emptive dismissal.

The laughable part is that if they didn't release anything, the whiners would be complaining they are hiding something, it's a waste of time, it's useless, etc.

Yup. No wonder this industry is eating itself apart from the inside out.

[Honu]

I wonder how they ever managed to race horses in the past without all this data..........oh yeah thats right horses didnt break down back then and everybody just used hay, oats and water.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

I wonder how they ever managed to race horses in the past without all this data..........oh yeah thats right horses didnt break down back then and everybody just used hay, oats and water.

Yes, advances in veterinary medicine, and the health and welfare of the TB racehorse, suck.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

You and Chuck are sad. Before they have even looked at what they've assembled through 2009, before they have released one iota about what they've found, the rocket scientists here have already dismissed it as premature, rushed, useless, ill-timed, and a failure.

Yeah. And I'm the crybaby? You whiners are complaining about something not even done yet. Pre-emptive dismissal.

The laughable part is that if they didn't release anything, the whiners would be complaining they are hiding something, it's a waste of time, it's useless, etc.

Yup. No wonder this industry is eating itself apart from the inside out.

I am sad because they are rushing to throw together "something" instead of doing it right. And doing it right would be letting an independent person study and interpret the data, an independent person that can analyze the numbers as a statistical evaluation. Like I said before, a professional statistician. The "data" is just that. It doesnt matter if it is broken legs or sloppy tracks or passed balls and stolen bases. Having a vet interpret the data after 1 year seems like a mistake in that conclusions may be drawn that simply arent valid.

The industry has already made the mistake of trying to interpret breakdown stats on a month by moth or meet by meet basis. There simply isnt enough data and too many variables until you have the proper amount of data. This is basic mathmatics.

The reason that this industry has issues is that everybody has had their head up their asses forever and now instead of properly doing things it rushes to judgement as it is doing here.

No one would complain about the "reports" not being released until they were told they existed. The fact is that one years worth of data (incomplete data at that) really cant be very telling can it?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am sad because they are rushing to throw together "something" instead of doing it right. And doing it right would be letting an independent person study and interpret the data, an independent person that can analyze the numbers as a statistical evaluation. Like I said before, a professional statistician. The "data" is just that. It doesnt matter if it is broken legs or sloppy tracks or passed balls and stolen bases. Having a vet interpret the data after 1 year seems like a mistake in that conclusions may be drawn that simply arent valid.

The industry has already made the mistake of trying to interpret breakdown stats on a month by moth or meet by meet basis. There simply isnt enough data and too many variables until you have the proper amount of data. This is basic mathmatics.

The reason that this industry has issues is that everybody has had their head up their asses forever and now instead of properly doing things it rushes to judgement as it is doing here.

No one would complain about the "reports" not being released until they were told they existed. The fact is that one years worth of data (incomplete data at that) really cant be very telling can it?

Actually it reps the past year not the future

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am sad because they are rushing to throw together "something" instead of doing it right.

This is the part I don't understand. Why is it "rushing" to release what they have from the first year? Why do you think it isn't being "done right"?

Obviously if further accumulation of stats changes things, that will be apparent, too. Science isn't a static discipline. You can't overinterpret, but there will rarely be a day you can say, "Okay, we've waited long enough, and in hindsight, this is concrete".

Maybe in physics. That gravity thing seems pretty solid.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Having a vet interpret the data after 1 year seems like a mistake in that conclusions may be drawn that simply arent valid.

I know you have little respect for vets in general, but did ya miss the part where he's got internationally respected epidemiology bonafides?

Ignoring that doesn't make it go away.