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  #261  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgar311
and?
I think you are assuming that it was solely the surface and not that he was showing signs of slowing down prior to that race.
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  #262  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
He looked great huh...
How much did he lose those races by?
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  #263  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
This is Asumussen, shouldn't it just be assumed all his horses are on something illegal....as Byk said give them the benefit of doubt until there is reason not to....with this guy he has more reasons than anyone the past decade.
Probably true.
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  #264  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
I think you are assuming that it was solely the surface and not that he was showing signs of slowing down prior to that race.
Im really not going to get into an argument with you if you think that there is no difference between dirt and poly, you have truly shown your ignorance on this matter with that post.
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  #265  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgar311
Im really not going to get into an argument with you if you think that there is no difference between dirt and poly, you have truly shown your ignorance on this matter with that post.
Wait a minute not so quick, you are so anti-poly that you disregard other factors for the failure of Curlin in the classic, that to me shows more ignorance than just blindly blaming it on the surface.
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  #266  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Wait a minute not so quick, you are so anti-poly that you disregard other factors for the failure of Curlin in the classic, that to me shows more ignorance than just blindly blaming it on the surface.
I believe Curlin's form was declining and was further compounded by the surface. It wasn't an "exposure" of the horse's true abilities, however.
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  #267  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
I believe Curlin's form was declining and was further compounded by the surface. It wasn't an "exposure" of the horse's true abilities, however.
We agree on this one Travis, I can't remember his exact beyer from the race but it wasn't far off his normal numbers for the yr post Dubai. It also didn't help that Albarado made a very premature move that may have suited dirt races, but rarely works on synth.
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  #268  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
We agree on this one Travis, I can't remember his exact beyer from the race but it wasn't far off his normal numbers for the yr post Dubai.
He also moved way too early in a race that loved the last move.
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  #269  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
I believe Curlin's form was declining and was further compounded by the surface. It wasn't an "exposure" of the horse's true abilities, however.
How about a rider deciding to commence his run to the lead on the turn? If he waits he is right there with the other two euro horses....and yes his form was declining, he handled the surface fine.
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  #270  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
He also moved way too early in a race that loved the last move.
ok, did not see your post before I posted.
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  #271  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prudery
No she was not ....

Busher at three defeated older males TWICE in 1945..

On dirt ... AT 10 furlongs...

Being that grading races was post 1970, you have to interpret what the Arlington and Washington Handicaps were--50,000 dollar races in the 1940s which attracted the best, as can be seen in the roster of winners and contestants over time ... G1 ...

She carried high weight by the scale in the Washington Handicap and knocked off Armed, Calumet star and future HOY--not a Macho Again type ..

She also won by daylight in both races, and ultimately HOY ...
Correct... and while those likely would have been grade 1 races, grading of races started in 1973 and she is the first to do it, my statement still stands...
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  #272  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:56 AM
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Jackson speaks...

http://www.drf.com/news/article/109299.html
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  #273  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
Cant open drf.com at work can you give a quick synopsis?
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  #274  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
How about a rider deciding to commence his run to the lead on the turn? If he waits he is right there with the other two euro horses....and yes his form was declining, he handled the surface fine.
The way I saw it, he probably finishes 2nd with a more patient ride and the question of him not handling the surface would be a moot one, Raven's Pass probably still wins it, he was much the best horse last year.
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  #275  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgar311
Cant open drf.com at work can you give a quick synopsis?
If the voters consider the facts, Rachel is HOTY.
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  #276  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:09 AM
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Ultimately, and this is off topic, but everyone needs to finally admits that synthetics, dirt and turf are three different types of racing, and it's not dirt/synthetic and turf.

That's not to degrade a horse who loves only synths, or only dirt, but simply put, it's a different deal. Synthetics were a game changer on many fronts these past few years, and the BC in particular felt it.
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  #277  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgar311
Cant open drf.com at work can you give a quick synopsis?
Jess Jackson: Shooting from the hip
By Bill Christine

Jess Jackson may have boycotted the Breeders' Cup by keeping his horses away, but his wife, Barbara Banke, was on hand at Santa Anita, and in Kentucky the moneybags winemaker himself was in front of a TV set, greatly interested in the race he had shunned.

Zenyatta keelhauled the field in the Classic, and in less time than it took the undefeated racemare to negotiate 1 1/4 miles, Jackson dialed up Jerry Moss's cell phone.

Moss, who co-owns Zenyatta with his wife, Ann, must have been en route to the winner's circle and didn't answer. "Exceptional!" Jackson said into his voice mail. "That was an exceptional performance."

Moss and Jackson are both Californians, but they may not cross paths again until the night of Jan. 18, when someone at a hotel in Beverly Hills opens an envelope and announces that either Moss's Zenyatta or Jackson's Rachel Alexandra has won Horse of the Year honors for 2009.

Horse of the Year announcements are frequently ho-hum anti-climaxes, but this one is so steeped in high drama and emotion that the Eclipse Awards' sponsoring partners - Daily Racing Form, the National Turf Writers Association and the National Thoroughbred Racing Association - considered a voting rule change that would permit the 275 or so voters to split their votes between Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra. For years, split votes have been thrown out. The longshot possibility of the Zenyatta-Rachel Alexandra vote resulting in co-champions died a narrow death when the Racing Form was the only faction that favored a change.

In an interview before that development, Jackson said that he preferred an all-or-nothing result to the Horse of the Year vote. No dead heats for the 79-year-old billionaire.

"You wouldn't have two Heisman Award winners, would you?" he said. "You wouldn't have co-winners of the Most Valuable Player Award in baseball. It would be silly, and wouldn't prove anything, if these two horses shared the title."

Jackson can talk this way because he feels Rachel Alexandra is the favorite, despite Zenyatta's finish with a flourish at Santa Anita. That tour de force left her with a 14-0 career record. If possible, voters are supposed to consider only their performances in 2009, when Rachel Alexandra went 8-0 and Zenyatta went 5-0.

"They're both great horses," Jackson said. "Zenyatta's win in the Classic was no surprise to me. I predicted a week before the race that she'd win."

Horse of the Year hullabaloo is old hat by now for Jackson, who owned a controlling interest in Curlin, national champion in 2007 and 2008. Since the Eclipse Awards began in 1971, one owner has won three straight Horse of the Year titles: Martha Gerry, all with Forego, from 1974 to 1976.

Jackson has no regrets about instructing his trainer, Steve Asmussen, to shut down on Rachel Alexandra after she defeated colts for the third time by winning the Woodward at Saratoga on Sept. 5. Jackson, hardly a candidate to do testimonials about synthetic tracks, spent most of the year denigrating artificial surfaces in general and Santa Anita's Pro-Ride layout in particular. He felt that Curlin's fourth-place finish in the 2008 Breeders' Cup Classic at Santa Anita could be blamed on Pro-Ride, although other analysts theorized Curlin was past his peak because of a grueling, season-long campaign.

"The health of the horse is more important than running in a big race," Jackson said. "I'm looking forward to Churchill Downs next year, when they'll get back to running the Breeders' Cup on dirt again, which is where it belongs. It's going to be fun running this filly again. We're going to see if she can beat herself."

Like Curlin, Rachel Alexandra will run as a 4-year-old. She'll begin the season with the rest of Asmussen's stock at the Fair Grounds, where she won the Fair Grounds Oaks for trainer Hal Wiggins in March. Jackson said no schedule has been mapped out, but it's possible the filly might run at the Fair Grounds again.

"New Orleans has the fairest track in the country," Jackson said. "The weather's good, and the food's not too bad down there, either."

Asked why Rachel Alexandra might prevail in the Horse of the Year vote, Jackson said: "You can't worry about what's in the hands of others, but I think she'll win. If they consider the facts, she'll win."

By rote, and in a staccato that a sportscaster might use to deliver a Sunday of NFL scores, Jackson can reel off the details of most of Rachel Alexandra's wins. He didn't buy her and turn her over to Asmussen until shortly after win No. 4, the Kentucky Oaks at Churchill Downs. Reportedly, the purchase price was $7 million, although Jackson has never confirmed that.

"She did things that a female horse has never done," Jackson said. "The Kentucky Oaks, by more than 20 lengths, biggest margin in the history of the race. The Preakness, first filly to win it in 85 years. Mother Goose, biggest margin, breaking Ruffian's record, and fastest time ever. Haskell, beating the boys again, and second-biggest margin and only two-fifths of a second off track record. Woodward, first filly ever. In the Mother Goose, she was eased up, and still only missed Secretariat's [1 1/8-mile track record] by four ticks."

It would be easier for the voters, of course, if the two horses had gone head to head. But Zenyatta never came East, staying on synthetic tracks in California, and Rachel Alexandra never went West, running only on dirt.

"Even though I'm against the synthetics, there ought to be an Eclipse Award for best horse on synthetic, to go with best horse on dirt and best horse on turf, but you'd still have to choose between those three for best overall horse," Jackson said. "What racing needs is a major-league circuit, with races throughout the year for the various divisions and a point system for each division. You could have points for the jockeys and trainers, too, depending on what they won. There could be monetary awards for the horses with the most points. You'd still need a vote at the end for Horse of the Year, but the point standings would give the voters much more to go on than what they have now."

Jim McIngvale, a wealthy Texas horse owner and mattress salesman with a promotional flair, tried to bring Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta together for a $2 million match race, but nothing happened.

"That proposal was turned down by the other side before I even knew the offer was out there," said Jackson, referring to the Mosses. He said he doubted he would have green-lighted a match race, anyway.

Jackson said he believes there should be some sweeping changes made in the Eclipse Awards voting process.

"The racing secretaries shouldn't be voting," he said. "Not because they're prejudiced, but they look at racing differently. They're handicappers, concerned with odds and the betting aspects. When you talk about Horse of the Year, you should be concerned with who's the best horse, who did the most, and nothing else. Put the vote in the hands of the turf writers, and let it go at that. They're the most independent of those who vote now, and that would be the best way to go. But broaden the turf writers' group a little bit. There are some TV people, for instance, who are just as qualified to judge the sport, and they could be added to the mix."

Fire the racing secretaries as Eclipse voters? They've been part of the process since Day 1. It might take a, ahem, commissioner of racing, to bite that bullet.

Well, why not, Jackson says.

"There's a need for a commissioner," he said. "But it should be an outsider, not somebody who's already in racing. We've got enough consultants and advisers from the inside as it is.

"Racing needs a Judge Landis type to get its house in order," he said, referring to Kenesaw Mountain Landis, a federal judge hired to rejuvenate Major League Baseball after the Chicago "Black Sox" scandal in 1919.

It might be time for racing to get back in the commissioner business again, although twice the game went that route with marginal, if any, success. The first commissioner - a sports marketing executive who had seldom visited a racetrack before taking the job - was Brian McGrath, a $5 million misadventure. McGrath, who was paid an estimated $700,000 a year, was a Thoroughbred Racing Associations hire who left by mutual agreement in 1995. The TRA's member tracks, who couldn't afford him, asked McGrath at the outset to formulate promotions that might pay for the expenses of his office. One such idea, a national pick seven built around races at seven tracks, raised little revenue and was scrapped.

"Fair enforcement of uniform national drug laws would be No. 1 on [a commissioner's] agenda," Jackson said. "They might also look into changing the name of the Breeders' Cup while they were at it. It ought to be the Owners' Cup. It's the owners, who run and pay for the horses that the breeders give them, who are the backbone of the game. Right now, racing is strapped with a bad economic plan. They run their 2-year-olds and 3-year-olds, and then it's on to the breeding shed. John Henry was a gelding, but he's still a perfectly good example of how the good horses invigorate the fans. The fans loved John Henry for a long time. We need to keep our good ones, even the stud horses, around for a long time."
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  #278  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
Ultimately, and this is off topic, but everyone needs to finally admits that synthetics, dirt and turf are three different types of racing, and it's not dirt/synthetic and turf.

That's not to degrade a horse who loves only synths, or only dirt, but simply put, it's a different deal. Synthetics were a game changer on many fronts these past few years, and the BC in particular felt it.
Dont you think there are several votes that will penalize horses on synthetic graded races? Like Zensational?
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  #279  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:22 AM
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I think those were very fair comments by Jackson.
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  #280  
Old 12-03-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
Correct... and while those likely would have been grade 1 races, grading of races started in 1973 and she is the first to do it, my statement still stands...
Not exactly ...

It only stands in a kangaroo court ...

The statement will stand ONLY if it is qualified that she won a G! against males at three ONLY after races were graded post 1973 ...

The above also implies that there were NO graded races before that, or what a G1 is is totally up to conjecture--and in the case of the Rachelistas, convenience ...
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