McLaughlin with 3 positives; Gets 30 day ban..

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually Eric it cant happen to me. While I am certainly eligible to get a positive test as is anyone who runs a horse under the current system but the pattern of abuse of some is damning. The danger is the Freddy mo message that the guys are good horseman who feel the need to keep up. That is simply not acceptable. Zero tolerence is not the answer because the system is flawed but in cases like this latest positive that headlines this thread, it is far fetched to believe this wasn't a cut and dried case of cheating.

Obviously there is a lot left unsaid and much of the truth never reaches the public but the fact is that there are very few guys with "suspicious" reputations that aren't well deserved.

Sorry about that Chuck -- not really what I meant. I was not inferring to a positive you might get vs. a pattern of abuse. On that, I agree with you.

What I meant was more that the "where there's smoke, there's fire" thing can happen to you as it has others. You could pick up a new owner who knows how to play the game and lets you spot horses aggressively. Compoung that with claiming a few from a few 3% trainers who have given up on a horse or missed something huge, now you move those up. Now you get another owner, and another. Things get rolling. Buy one for the owner and win a stake or two. Do well at a few high profile meets. All of a sudden people are talking about Chuck Simon who may never have had a positive test ever before -- and now they are saying where there's smoke there's fire.

Regardless, and again I agree, I do think there are very few guys who have "suspicious" reputations that are not deserved. Well deserved? Sure there are some which certainly are well deserved, and there are a few that I think are not, but I do agree.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Sorry about that Chuck -- not really what I meant. I was not inferring to a positive you might get vs. a pattern of abuse. On that, I agree with you.

What I meant was more that the "where there's smoke, there's fire" thing can happen to you as it has others. You could pick up a new owner who knows how to play the game and lets you spot horses aggressively. Compoung that with claiming a few from a few 3% trainers who have given up on a horse or missed something huge, now you move those up. Now you get another owner, and another. Things get rolling. Buy one for the owner and win a stake or two. Do well at a few high profile meets. All of a sudden people are talking about Chuck Simon who may never have had a positive test ever before -- and now they are saying where there's smoke there's fire.

Regardless, and again I agree, I do think there are very few guys who have "suspicious" reputations that are not deserved. Well deserved? Sure there are some which certainly are well deserved, and there are a few that I think are not, but I do agree.

Eric

I understand where you are coming from. There will never be absolute certainty. But many of the people we refer to are guilty, are known within the industry as being guilty yet they hide behind the standard excuses. And the real shame is that many of them walk around with a smuggness because they are using what isnt being tested for and they know it. The really sad thing is that the vast majority of the trainers do play by the rules.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I understand where you are coming from. There will never be absolute certainty. But many of the people we refer to are guilty, are known within the industry as being guilty yet they hide behind the standard excuses. And the real shame is that many of them walk around with a smuggness because they are using what isnt being tested for and they know it. The really sad thing is that the vast majority of the trainers do play by the rules.

Why wouldnt you use a drug that improves your horses performance and is LEGAL, if it doesn't endanger the welfare of the animal?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Why wouldnt you use a drug that improves your horses performance and is LEGAL, if it doesn't endanger the welfare of the animal?

Like what?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Like what?

You told Eric that guys are running horses on stuff that isnt being tested for? Well if it isnt illegal and it works and makes your horse faster because the horse feels better..........AND?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

You told Eric that guys are running horses on stuff that isnt being tested for? Well if it isnt illegal and it works and makes your horse faster because the horse feels better..........AND?

Just because they dont have a test for something doesnt mean that it isnt illegal. Despite what all your sources tell you. In KY any non-naturally occuring substance that isnt on the approved list is considered illegal. The idea behind the rule is in theory they are going to go back and retest the old samples and using newly found drugs and nail the trainers under a blanket rule. Of course the chance of frozen samples being retested are slim at best.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Just because they dont have a test for something doesnt mean that it isnt illegal. Despite what all your sources tell you. In KY any non-naturally occuring substance that isnt on the approved list is considered illegal. The idea behind the rule is in theory they are going to go back and retest the old samples and using newly found drugs and nail the trainers under a blanket rule. Of course the chance of frozen samples being retested are slim at best.

Who races in KY other then Keeneland who would cheat at CD who would race at CD? If Ken McPeek is willing to win every race at Keeneland because he knows there is a drug that helps his horses FEEL better and run faster and the drug is NOT illegal that makes him a cheater? Why because in 2016 it will be illegal..Your serious right?? Good Luck Chuck hope you get a Rachel type soon.

So let me get this right there are a bunch of meds out there that work really well, make your stock feel better, doesnt endanger there lives, and is perfectly legal currently because they arent testing for it and havent declared it illegal yet you wont use it because they may declare it illegal in 2019.. I use organic milk as well..lol