ramon and rajiv

[eajinabi]

I like Ramon Dominguez and I do appreciate his riding but he hasnt reached the top level yet. Unless you can compete in big races and win consistently at the top then you havent arrived yet. He is not the only one though. There are a lot of jockeys who are way overated and get more credit than they actually deserve. Aaron Gryder and Richard Migliore are some to be mentioned.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I like Ramon Dominguez and I do appreciate his riding but he hasnt reached the top level yet.

Yes he has.

He's a no brainer if you're talking about the top 5 in the country.

He's probably the best turf jockey of the last 20 years.

And I can assure you that he's no better a rider now than he was 5 years ago.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes he has.

He's a no brainer if you're talking about the top 5 in the country.

He's probably the best turf jockey of the last 20 years.

And I can assure you that he's no better a rider now than he was 5 years ago.

Drugs, did you follow him and Rose in Delaware before he came every day to New York. The two of them were pretty even at Del. Park but it does seem that Ramon makes smoother and smarter decisions than he did consistently on that circuit. It's very rare that you see him lose a race now he could have won when you watch the replay. He used to force things occasionally and get himself in places patience would have solved. But this is splitting hairs. He's certainly no liability on anyone's horse now. They don't give away those Saratoga titles for being any less than first rate. It's great to see how well respected he is now. I am not so sure that Rose wouldn't have been right there with him if not for that unfortunate incident that cost him on so many levels a couple years back.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I think Dominguez was always a lot better than Rose.

Dominguez is one of very few jocks that is a real difference maker when he rides a turf route.

Dominguez in turf routes since '99: 437-for-1,832 (23.9% wins) $2.37 ROI

Pretty scary numbers for a jockey. If you simply bet $100 to win on every turf route Ramon has ridden since '99 .. you'd be ahead $33,892 right now.


Rose is an excellent turf jockey as well ... lifetime $1.98 ROI in turf routes .. but Dominguez was a freak. 8 out of 10 years from '99 to '08 he turned a flat bet profit.. and very significant flat bet profits in 6 of those 8 years.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes he has.

He's a no brainer if you're talking about the top 5 in the country.

He's probably the best turf jockey of the last 20 years.

And I can assure you that he's no better a rider now than he was 5 years ago.

Not sure he is the best turf rider in the last 20 yrs. That is a hyperbole. I have heard that about every other jockey being touted as one.

Also, Leparoux hasnt even been riding for 5 yrs in the states and yet he has achieved more than Dominguez. At this point, you can argue if Dominguez is better than Russel Baze or not.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Not sure he is the best turf rider in the last 20 yrs. That is a hyperbole. I have heard that about every other jockey being touted as one.

Also, Leparoux hasnt even been riding for 5 yrs in the states and yet he has achieved more than Dominguez. At this point, you can argue if Dominguez is better than Russel Baze or not.

The overlay of the day on Fri was a turf route at CD in the 6th yesterday on Coulee with Leparioux riding, only 6 betting choices and Julien at almost 11-1. Leparioux gave the horse a flawless trip. Though I believe Ramon is more efficient with cover in turf races, Leparioux has a knack for getting horses to produce in the stretch. He's been very good this week and anytime you see a price on him I would certainly give him a second look.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by CSC

The overlay of the day on Fri was a turf route at CD in the 6th yesterday on Coulee with Leparioux riding, only 6 betting choices and Julien at almost 11-1. Leparioux gave the horse a flawless trip. Though I believe Ramon is more efficient with cover in turf races, Leparioux has a knack for getting horses to produce in the stretch. He's been very good this week and anytime you see a price on him I would certainly give him a second look.

hes always good down there. but, i noticed up here he does not win like that. trying to compare him to ramon and alan garcia makes me laugh because i don't think he will ever win like they do. he reminds me of pat day. cleaning up on the weaker jockey colonies. its funny how he comes in behind rajiv, alan and ramon when they ride the same meet. the whole thread is kind of ridiculous because two of the hottest jocks around are rajiv and ramon. riding is like hitting, sometimes you strike out! you can't fault a guy for some mistakes. the horses are going 40 miles an hour with split second decisions. yet, people come on and put down guys that routinely win 2 to 3 races a day! i want to put some of you on the back of a horse and see how far you get in a race without falling off. ramon only beat him by 17 wins in a 36 day meet at saratoga, yeah , that was real close, give me a break.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

hes always good down there. but, i noticed up here he does not win like that. trying to compare him to ramon and alan garcia makes me laugh because i don't think he will ever win like they do. he reminds me of pat day. cleaning up on the weaker jockey colonies. its funny how he comes in behind rajiv, alan and ramon when they ride the same meet. the whole thread is kind of ridiculous because two of the hottest jocks around are rajiv and ramon. riding is like hitting, sometimes you strike out! you can't fault a guy for some mistakes. the horses are going 40 miles an hour with split second decisions. yet, people come on and put down guys that routinely win 2 to 3 races a day! i want to put some of you on the back of a horse and see how far you get in a race without falling off. ramon only beat him by 17 wins in a 36 day meet at saratoga, yeah , that was real close, give me a break.

it's like people bashing the yankees , as a yankee fan i expect it , we over spend evey year on free agents or home grown players , and every year we are the favorite to win the world series. Ramon in NY , in particular at the BIG A is on the best horse a majority of the races, when you win 2 , 3, 4 rides a day but blow a couple of other rides during the week on horses you are supposed to win on you have to expect to be called out on it. It's not like he is blowing races on 45/1 shots that are hopless

[Gander]

Originally Posted by gales0678

it's like people bashing the yankees , as a yankee fan i expect it , we over spend evey year on free agents or home grown players , and every year we are the favorite to win the world series. Ramon in NY , in particular at the BIG A is on the best horse a majority of the races, when you win 2 , 3, 4 rides a day but blow a couple of other rides during the week on horses you are supposed to win on you have to expect to be called out on it. It's not like he is blowing races on 45/1 shots that are hopless

Like any great jockey, Ramon often rides horses that are overbet simply because he is riding them. Case in point yesterday's last race, the favorite American Land. Yes, the horse figured to be one of the possible winners out of about 5 horses that fit the same bill, but 9/5 was a terrible price. He loses with this horse and some people say he lost with a horse that should have won. Thats ridiculous. It was the kind of race where many bettors land on one horse strictly by default for who is riding (Ramon). Take away the riders, and you would have about 5 horses who would/should have been 4/1-6/1 range.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

hes always good down there. but, i noticed up here he does not win like that. trying to compare him to ramon and alan garcia makes me laugh because i don't think he will ever win like they do. he reminds me of pat day. cleaning up on the weaker jockey colonies. its funny how he comes in behind rajiv, alan and ramon when they ride the same meet. the whole thread is kind of ridiculous because two of the hottest jocks around are rajiv and ramon. riding is like hitting, sometimes you strike out! you can't fault a guy for some mistakes. the horses are going 40 miles an hour with split second decisions. yet, people come on and put down guys that routinely win 2 to 3 races a day! i want to put some of you on the back of a horse and see how far you get in a race without falling off. ramon only beat him by 17 wins in a 36 day meet at saratoga, yeah , that was real close, give me a break.

On turf, I would put him in there with the best riders in America. He has the right style for poly races also, I think him coming behind Garcia and Ramon has more to do with the quality of rides he gets. There's a strong pecking order at certain meets and unless you are Kent D, Garcia, or Ramon it is hard cashing in consistently on the 3rd best horse in races.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I like Ramon Dominguez and I do appreciate his riding but he hasnt reached the top level yet. Unless you can compete in big races and win consistently at the top then you havent arrived yet. He is not the only one though. There are a lot of jockeys who are way overated and get more credit than they actually deserve. Aaron Gryder and Richard Migliore are some to be mentioned.

There is no way you can compare either of those guys to Ramon. Who exactly are the "top level" riders that Ramon just couldn't stack up with? Just curious.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

There is no way you can compare either of those guys to Ramon. Who exactly are the "top level" riders that Ramon just couldn't stack up with? Just curious.

For Example: Gomez, Desormaux, Mike Smith, Edgar Prado, Leparoux, Bejarano are some who for sure rank highr than Dominguez. Its nice that Dominguez wins jockey title after jockey title but when the big days come he is a no-show. The jockeys mentioned above dont win jockey titles like dominguez but when the big races come they consistently show up and produce winners.

Dominguez did win the Saratoga title but Castellano, Garcia, Prado, Maragh and Desourmaux each had more stakes win than he. For a guy that rides as many races and who wins that many races, his graded stakes wins are very minimal. To his credit, he is very young and has an eternity to move to the top.

He is the Steve Nash of horse racing: Great in the regular season but no-show in the playoffs

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

For Example: Gomez, Desormaux, Mike Smith, Edgar Prado, Leparoux, Bejarano are some who for sure rank highr than Dominguez. Its nice that Dominguez wins jockey title after jockey title but when the big days come he is a no-show. The jockeys mentioned above dont win jockey titles like dominguez but when the big races come they consistently show up and produce winners.

Dominguez did win the Saratoga title but Castellano, Garcia, Prado, Maragh and Desourmaux each had more stakes win than he. For a guy that rides as many races and who wins that many races, his graded stakes wins are very minimal. To his credit, he is very young and has an eternity to move to the top.

He is the Steve Nash of horse racing: Great in the regular season but no-show in the playoffs

Wouldn't this be more of a function of an agent getting good stakes mounts for a rider? He does have 5 or 6 G1's this year in races like the Arlington Million and Man O War so it's not as though he is just non-exsistent as you're implying. And I think he had the most stakes wins at Saratoga if I'm not mistaken (not just graded stakes but all stakes). Agree to disagree but IMO he is the best you can do right now in terms of riders in any race.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

For Example: Gomez, Desormaux, Mike Smith, Edgar Prado, Leparoux, Bejarano are some who for sure rank highr than Dominguez.

Nonsense. There's no way Smith, Prado or Bejarano rank higher than him. Gomez yeah, Desormeaux maybe, Leparoux maybe. It's not even an argument, Dominguez is a top five jock right now.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Nonsense. There's no way Smith, Prado or Bejarano rank higher than him. Gomez yeah, Desormeaux maybe, Leparoux maybe. It's not even an argument, Dominguez is a top five jock right now.

I was about to type pretty much the same thing, then saw your post. I couldn't agree more.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Nonsense. There's no way Smith, Prado or Bejarano rank higher than him. Gomez yeah, Desormeaux maybe, Leparoux maybe. It's not even an argument, Dominguez is a top five jock right now.

I dont know what and how you consider him better than anyone one of them. If you go by acomplischments thus far then Dominguez has to be dead last on that list. If you want to compare him in the last year or so then top 10 he is for sure. Top 5 maybe not

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I dont know what and how you consider him better than anyone one of them. If you go by acomplischments thus far then Dominguez has to be dead last on that list. If you want to compare him in the last year or so then top 10 he is for sure. Top 5 maybe not

So because Dominguez has no Triple Crown or BC wins he's not a Top 5 rider?

Sure, I mean, why not base a jockey's standing on the results of 17 races when he rides 1700 races a year.

NT

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

So because Dominguez has no Triple Crown or BC wins he's not a Top 5 rider?

Sure, I mean, why not base a jockey's standing on the results of 17 races when he rides 1700 races a year.

NT

He actually won the Turf on Better Talk Now in '04. Couldn't agree more with you though.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

So because Dominguez has no Triple Crown or BC wins he's not a Top 5 rider?

Sure, I mean, why not base a jockey's standing on the results of 17 races when he rides 1700 races a year.

NT

No,I dont like to confuse quantity of wins is better than quality of wins.

If we compare young jockeys only then Alan Garcia and Leparoux managed to step out of the one-two hit wonders and routinely win graded stakes races month in and month out.

Maybe Dominguez shouldnt be riding 1700 races a year. He has already proven he can win titles so the next logical step is for him to focus on earning quality mounts and secure those big wins to put on his resume. I am sure he will be a force in the later years but right now he is not there.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I like Ramon Dominguez and I do appreciate his riding but he hasnt reached the top level yet. Unless you can compete in big races and win consistently at the top then you havent arrived yet. He is not the only one though. There are a lot of jockeys who are way overated and get more credit than they actually deserve. Aaron Gryder and Richard Migliore are some to be mentioned.

I don't understand where these two names came from. Gryder is trying to grind it out on the West coast and the Mig has been back and forth between both coasts and he only gets a few mounts a day. I just don't get the comparison.