11/11 ATR: The Great HOTY Debate

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Wow. "That statement" that I made was about as coldly unemotional as it could be. Not sure what alternate universe lexicon or pejorative equates what I wrote with calling someone stupid..

If we want to split hairs on definitions, fine. I don't think people like to be told that they lack the ability to reason.

Originally Posted by Kasept

Wow. "That statement" that I made was about as coldly unemotional as it could be. Not sure what alternate universe lexicon or pejorative equates what I wrote with calling someone stupid..

But they are and this whole debate is.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

With all due respect, I think it is statements like this that prompt the emotion that you have seen in the debate on this board. People don't like being told that they are "irrational" or without cognitive ability just because they have a different opinion.

Agree to disagree. Fine. Don't tell someone that they are stupid.

WTF?? Are we all becoming a bunch of hypersensitive wusses? This is starting to sound like a soap opera.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by joeydb

WTF?? Are we all becoming a bunch of hypersensitive wusses? This is starting to sound like a soap opera.

Like this is going to help...

If anything it just shows how passionate these 2 horses evoke. Nothing wrong about that, we could go back to Curlin of last yrs HOY convo..zzz

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kasept

It's rather remarkable how a singular performance can somehow promote complete abandonment of rationality. Zenyatta's performance was terrific... But take it for what it was, where it was and who it came against. How it magically elevates her 'year' to equal or beyond that of Rachel Alexandra's defies logic or cognition.

"where it was" - Yea when the races are run at Santa Anita they should not count, kinda like when the crew for Mineshaft decided he was just to cool to run at Santa Anita, racing at the place is not worth the trip for you eastern guys, and heck that was on dirt even!!

"who it came against" - cut it any way you want, that was a better field than RA ran againt all year. Her best field was probably the Woodward, and this field drown that one. I guess her race on an off track, not fast dirt mind you but an off track in NJ is a close second.

Also when separating two records for Horse of the Year it should factor in the impact a horse had on a sport, and I think in 20 years unless RA wins the Classic, America's defining race for quality, next year that they will still be talking about Zenyatta and not RA. This takes nothing away from her but fillies winning or competing in triple crown races, well seems to the rage the last few years.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

"where it was" - Yea when the races are run at Santa Anita they should not count, kinda like when the crew for Mineshaft decided he was just to cool to run at Santa Anita, racing at the place is not worth the trip for you eastern guys, and heck that was on dirt even!!

"who it came against" - cut it any way you want, that was a better field than RA ran againt all year. Her best field was probably the Woodward, and this field drown that one. I guess her race on an off track, not fast dirt mind you but an off track in NJ is a close second.

Also when separating two records for Horse of the Year it should factor in the impact a horse had on a sport, and I think in 20 years unless RA wins the Classic, America's defining race for quality, next year that they will still be talking about Zenyatta and not RA. This takes nothing away from her but fillies winning or competing in triple crown races, well seems to the rage the last few years.

Before you say this years BC Field would drown the horses RA beat

Horses like Gio Ponti and Twice Over and Rip Van Winkle might very well finish up the track on a dirt course for all you or anyone knows, especially Gio Ponti since there has to be a reason why Gio has been kept on grass when dirt racing is more widely available here in the States.

Would you take Macho Again or Gio Ponti in a fairly run dirt race at 10 furlongs? I would take the proven dirt horse.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Before you say this years BC Field would drown the horses RA beat

Horses like Gio Ponti and Twice Over and Rip Van Winkle might very well finish up the track on a dirt course for all you or anyone knows, especially Gio Ponti since there has to be a reason why Gio has been kept on grass when dirt racing is more widely available here in the States.

Would you take Macho Again or Gio Ponti in a fairly run dirt race at 10 furlongs? I would take the proven dirt horse.

What's your point?

Last I checked Zenyatta's race wasn't on dirt, so not sure how that's relevant at all.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Before you say this years BC Field would drown the horses RA beat

Horses like Gio Ponti and Twice Over and Rip Van Winkle might very well finish up the track on a dirt course for all you or anyone knows, especially Gio Ponti since there has to be a reason why Gio has been kept on grass when dirt racing is more widely available here in the States.

Would you take Macho Again or Gio Ponti in a fairly run dirt race at 10 furlongs? I would take the proven dirt horse.

This might be the worst statement I have seen and defies all rational handicapping.

Everyone says that Pro Ride is very friendly to turf horses, in fact Gio Ponti ran well on this very surface.

So if the ability on the turf, grade 1 ability does transfer to pro ride, then we saw two or three legit grade 1 winning talent run their race in the Classic yet they got drown.

How you can talk about what they would have done on dirt when they ran their race on pro ride is beyond me.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

"where it was" - Yea when the races are run at Santa Anita they should not count, kinda like when the crew for Mineshaft decided he was just to cool to run at Santa Anita, racing at the place is not worth the trip for you eastern guys, and heck that was on dirt even!!

"who it came against" - cut it any way you want, that was a better field than RA ran againt all year. Her best field was probably the Woodward, and this field drown that one. I guess her race on an off track, not fast dirt mind you but an off track in NJ is a close second.

Also when separating two records for Horse of the Year it should factor in the impact a horse had on a sport, and I think in 20 years unless RA wins the Classic, America's defining race for quality, next year that they will still be talking about Zenyatta and not RA. This takes nothing away from her but fillies winning or competing in triple crown races, well seems to the rage the last few years.

The triple crown races outweigh the Breeders Cup as far as people who watch it. I read the TV ratings were low again for the BC.

Tons more people watched the Preakness I would guess.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

The triple crown races outweigh the Breeders Cup as far as people who watch it. I read the TV ratings were low again for the BC.

Tons more people watched the Preakness I would guess.

7.9/.9 for the Preakness versus the Breeders Cup Classic. That is, if I understand my Nielsen ratings correctly. It's not even close - a TON more people watch the Triple Crown than do the Breeders Cup, particularly when there is a compelling story involved.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

The triple crown races outweigh the Breeders Cup as far as people who watch it. I read the TV ratings were low again for the BC.

Tons more people watched the Preakness I would guess.

Racing on TV starts/stops with the Derby, carries into the Preakness is society likes the winner and will only watch the Belmont if it's a big story (Triple Crown etc.)

The Breeders' Cup is a really tough sell on TV because it lasts all day and there is 30 minutes between races. People who are in the game complain about the angles used and stuff when in reality they should realize those who are fringe fans are more apt to watch/enjoy if they can see some fun angles versus the boring pan shot.