John Shirreffs

[JerseyJ]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

After Market finished dead last in a field of 8 in an alw race on the turf at Gulfstream in his final start for Bill Mott.

That was Jan 31st. Six months later .. he was the best in the West.

His pp's are right on top in this link...

http://www.drf.com/eclipse/2007/pps/maleturf.pdf


As for Life Is Sweet....

With Bill Mott: 2-for-7 .... zero for four in stakes races.

With John Shirreffs: 4-for-8 ... all races were either G1 or Gr 2 stakes. 3 of the 4 losses came to Zenyatta .. the other one came when 3rd to Rail Trip in the Hollywood Gold Cup.

As for the synthetic surface ... Life Is Sweet did run once on a synthetic track for Bill Mott .. she was 4th to Little Belle in the Ashland.

Please, take a look at After Market's PPs for a second...After Market finished a non-threatening 6th at 28-1 in the Kilroe Handicap and then was a non-threatening 5th with a perfect trip in a conditional money allowance. Finally he got into the winners circle in a weak 5 horse rendition of the Inglewood Handicap. Then he continued to get great setup, after great setup before coming home east and losing the Kelso BC Mile...Did he really improve that much out West or did he just beat up on crap out there???

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The weak competition he saw in Southern Cal helped him out big time .. but still .. Shirreffs did very well with him.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

Please, take a look at After Market's PPs for a second...After Market finished a non-threatening 6th at 28-1 in the Kilroe Handicap and then was a non-threatening 5th with a perfect trip in a conditional money allowance. Finally he got into the winners circle in a weak 5 horse rendition of the Inglewood Handicap. Then he continued to get great setup, after great setup before coming home east and losing the Kelso BC Mile...Did he really improve that much out West or did he just beat up on crap out there???

He "slayed the dragon" as a noted racecaller who frequents this site said in the Charlie Whittingham then he ran really well in the Eddie Read and Del Mar Handicap while accumulating wins at distances ranging from 8.5 to 11 furlongs. His trip in the Kelso could have been better as he was extremely wide coming off the turn and still finished up pretty well even with the pace collapse.

It's not a redboard but I had a future on Courageous Cat this year thinking that he might have a great transcendental experience heading west like his bro After Market. That and I thought Dominguez rode him like s.hit in the Jamaica.

I was a tad excited at the top of the stretch but piped down when I saw Goldikova in high gear.

NT

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He "slayed the dragon" as a noted racecaller who frequents this site said in the Charlie Whittingham then he ran really well in the Eddie Read and Del Mar Handicap while accumulating wins at distances ranging from 8.5 to 11 furlongs. His trip in the Kelso could have been better as he was extremely wide coming off the turn and still finished up pretty well even with the pace collapse.

It's not a redboard but I had a future on Courageous Cat this year thinking that he might have a great transcendental experience heading west like his bro After Market. That and I thought Dominguez rode him like s.hit in the Jamaica.

I was a tad excited at the top of the stretch but piped down when I saw Goldikova in high gear.

NT

Lets be honest here Nick. You were a lot more then a tad excited. You thought you had it.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

Please, take a look at After Market's PPs for a second...After Market finished a non-threatening 6th at 28-1 in the Kilroe Handicap and then was a non-threatening 5th with a perfect trip in a conditional money allowance. Finally he got into the winners circle in a weak 5 horse rendition of the Inglewood Handicap. Then he continued to get great setup, after great setup before coming home east and losing the Kelso BC Mile...Did he really improve that much out West or did he just beat up on crap out there???

That Inglewood Day was a very good day for me.

I After Market after that day.

[RolloTomasi]

After Market had bleeding issues that was reportedly the basis for his transfer out west.

As far as Shireffs ability as a debut trainer, where are your patented stats?

I think you might just be recalling top class sprinters Swept Overboard and Hook And Ladder (maybe a little Lethal Instrument and High Wire Act?) and somehow amplifying the actual numbers...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

As far as Shireffs ability as a debut trainer, where are your patented stats?

Shirreffs with first time starters between '98 and '99 ...

24-14-4-0 (58.3% wins) $7.63 ROI.


At Hollywood Park: 12-8-2-0 $7.90 ROI

At Santa Anita: 9-6-2-0 $9.82 ROI

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think you might just be recalling top class sprinters Swept Overboard and Hook And Ladder (maybe a little Lethal Instrument and High Wire Act?) and somehow amplifying the actual numbers...

Don't forget Shirreffs trained David Copperfield ... who won his debut by a neck over Fusaichi Pegasus. Less than 6 months later Fu Peg won the Derby as the post time favorite.

Also ... Shirreffs trained the beastly filly Manistique .. who won her debut by a pole with something like a 112 Beyer.

There were a few more who freaked in there debut as well for him.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Trivia...

Cliquot was a Shirreffs/505 first time starter from that time period who got beat a nose in his debut.

Name the eventual 7 time Graded Stakes winner who beat him.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Trivia...

Cliquot was a Shirreffs/505 first time starter from that time period who got beat a nose in his debut.

Name the eventual 7 time Graded Stakes winner who beat him.

General Challenge

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Yep.

It's too bad Rock Hard Ten '85 wasn't a big fan of his.

He could change his moniker to Generally Challenged 1985

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

Please, take a look at After Market's PPs for a second...After Market finished a non-threatening 6th at 28-1 in the Kilroe Handicap and then was a non-threatening 5th with a perfect trip in a conditional money allowance. Finally he got into the winners circle in a weak 5 horse rendition of the Inglewood Handicap. Then he continued to get great setup, after great setup before coming home east and losing the Kelso BC Mile...Did he really improve that much out West or did he just beat up on crap out there???

Well, to be fair, After Market was coming off a layoff or so in the Kilroe (not to mention he was about 40-1). I think those first couple of races were classic "prep" runs (with 4 or 5 wins under his belt in NY, he couldn't really start the season in soft spots).

For comparison, see Kotashaan's record off a long layoff in the fall of '02. He was UNP in an allowance, 4th in the San Gabriel at 20-1, before chasing Star Of Cozzene a couple of times and then going on a massive tear early in '03 that was only derailed by Luazur at Del Mar and Kent Desormeaux in Tokyo...