Who Is Horse Of The Year?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They don't like SoCal and/or Synthetic. Just vote, and forget this effort. One horse is drawing away (with gusto) in one of the 2 biggest purse races in the world. She showed up on the biggest stage, and romped. Simply fkn romped, and still what do you hear? "She didn't do enough." Neither did anything wrong, but R.A. didn't even run in the biggest race for 3 year olds this year( K Derby.) She's a 3 year old. If you want to match up with Zenyata, then you should at least have won the biggest race for a 3 year old, or won this race that Zenyata showed up for. Zenyata won the biggest race she could of been in this year. She's the only filly or mare to win this race. Hasn't ever been done (in the 25 year history.) Winning Colors won the Derby. R.A. didn't even run in it. She won a Triple Crown race. Then, she ducked both the Belmont and BC Classic. Hey, if you want to ignore the mare that accomplished the biggest feat (for her sex) in 25 years of horseracing, then you go right ahead. Surely, R.A. winning those other races was more important to ya. At some point, doing something your sex hasn't come close to doing in 25 years should get a little respect.

I would also add this, they are great conspiracists, a very defensive bunch these RA fans are, try not to hurt their feelings too much Scuds, we know who delivered on the biggest day of racing.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by CSC

I would also add this, they are great conspiracists, a very defensive bunch these RA fans are, try not to hurt their feelings too much Scuds, we know who delivered on the biggest day of racing.

Well, I think most of us are fans of both of these horses. They both had great years. Fact is one of them has earned more money in this country in 2009 than any other horse. Last week it was that she hadn't beaten anybody, or run fast enough. She put that to rest, and she's won more money. Last year, it was that she couldn't do it on dirt. She went to O.P., and put that to rest. To me, a mare winning more money in the U.S. than anyone, and winning the biggest race this country has, is better than a 3 year old filly beating older males. The connections of R.A. left the door open. Someone stepped up to the plate, n' took care of business(with ears pricked crossing the wire.)

Zenyata: $3,330,000
Rachel Alexandra $2,746,914
Gio Ponti $2,333,000
Summer Bird $2,323,040
Mine That Bird $1,892,200

[CSC]

What I said all along was unless someone stepped up at the BC, RA was the HOY. I think Steve summed it up perfectly on his show I am paraphrasing but we were so conditioned to believe that Zenyatta's 90's beyers were the correct measure of her that we fail to realize races are run on the track and not on paper, I was one of those that underestimated her that when she ran her race, it totally knocked me over when you saw what she did.

Of note Jon White had a great explanation of the process of choosing HOY, it really is an open ended process without any specific critaria where the voter has the freedom to choose whoever they deem as worthy, so if people want to choose RA, I can certainly see why and I wouldn't call someone crazy if they do, I don't agree with those who say it would be a travesty of Zenyatta would get the nod and in all seriousness I can respect what both horses have done to see it both ways. But to me the BC Classic was the 'game changer' that I don't think many saw coming and that was enough to make me change my mind on her.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by CSC

But to me the BC Classic was the 'game changer' that I don't think many saw coming and that was enough to make me change my mind on her.

I'm having a hard time swallowing this. If taking one chance in a big race trumps taking a chance in two or three races, and winning each time, then what's next?

[Travis Stone]

When the emotion and the excitement of the Breeders' Cup wears-off, and people have time to digest the year as a whole, because it is in fact Horse of the Year, then I wonder where the decisions will lie. Polls etc. now are like polls right after a party's convention during election year.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I'm having a hard time swallowing this. If taking one chance in a big race trumps taking a chance in two or three races, and winning each time, then what's next?

As of right now there is no critaria for selecting HOY, it is simply who each voter thinks Horse of the Yr is as White explained last night. With this you can expect open intrepretations who that is. I posted this morning that Steve was right on when he said we are so conditioned with beyers these days that alot of us underestimated her going into the Classic, winning 13 races on synth regardless if one believes the competition is bad is not as easy on the surface as it may look. Look at Richard's Kid, the results can be random...I can own up to maybe erroring on my opinion of her prior to the BC Classic and getting sucked into the void of that she was beating inferior fillies on a junk track. Regardless what she did on Sat was special, when you look at the way it all played out, no pace, losing a pace threat a min prior to post, flat footed start, and then the ease she won coming down the lane, it was a game changer and I think it's sad that people let what was a conservative campaign until the Classic get in the way of recognizing greatness.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by CSC

As of right now there is no critaria for selecting HOY, it is simply who each voter thinks Horse of the Yr is as White explained last night. With this you can expect open intrepretations who that is. I posted this morning that Steve was right on when he said we are so conditioned with beyers these days that alot of us underestimated her going into the Classic, winning 13 races on synth regardless if one believes the competition is bad is not as easy on the surface as it may look. Look at Richard's Kid, the results can be random...I can own up to maybe erroring on my opinion of her prior to the BC Classic and getting sucked into the void of that she was beating inferior fillies on a junk track. Regardless what she did on Sat was special, when you look at the way it all played out, no pace, losing a pace threat a min prior to post, flat footed start, and then the ease she won coming down the lane, it was a game changer and I think it's sad that people let what was a conservative campaign until the Classic get in the way of recognizing greatness.

The handlers have no one else to blame but themselves. If they wanted HOY so bad they should of taken on and beaten all comers. I dont think she was at the top of her game all year. She did throw in 2 clunkers and the weakness of the field was the only thing that saved her. That being said, if she ran against the boys those days she would have been beaten. But they stayed with the girls to fluff up her numbers and that is what is going to cost her HOY. May this be a lesson to all horse owners and trainers, if you want the accolades dont hide in the corner all year while someone else is doing all the work and jump out in the end and try and do one thing and steal the credit.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

As of right now there is no critaria for selecting HOY, it is simply who each voter thinks Horse of the Yr is as White explained last night. With this you can expect open intrepretations who that is. I posted this morning that Steve was right on when he said we are so conditioned with beyers these days that alot of us underestimated her going into the Classic, winning 13 races on synth regardless if one believes the competition is bad is not as easy on the surface as it may look. Look at Richard's Kid, the results can be random...I can own up to maybe erroring on my opinion of her prior to the BC Classic and getting sucked into the void of that she was beating inferior fillies on a junk track. Regardless what she did on Sat was special, when you look at the way it all played out, no pace, losing a pace threat a min prior to post, flat footed start, and then the ease she won coming down the lane, it was a game changer and I think it's sad that people let what was a conservative campaign until the Classic get in the way of recognizing greatness.

Because greatness should not/cannot be proven in one race in my opinion. Greatness is doing something beyond the ordinary once and then again, maybe even a few more times.

The difference between a campaign like Ghostzapper's and that of Zenyatta's was that his showed brilliance stretched over three different distances, even if it was only four races (of course she only ran five). He also squashed a much better Classic field.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Because greatness should not/cannot be proven in one race in my opinion. Greatness is doing something beyond the ordinary once and then again, maybe even a few more times.

The difference between a campaign like Ghostzapper's and that of Zenyatta's was that his showed brilliance stretched over three different distances, even if it was only four races (of course she only ran five). He also squashed a much better Classic field.

NT

We can talk for days regarding greatness, one thing I don't agree with is the citing of beyers as the definitive rule for how good a horse is, they are useful and are great from a conversational viewpoint but they should never be the absolute in determining that one horse can beat another when comparing horses.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Because greatness should not/cannot be proven in one race in my opinion. Greatness is doing something beyond the ordinary once and then again, maybe even a few more times.

Hmmm, how many major horses, the type who have won a whole bunch of grade 1's, have finished unbeaten. Is it a big number?

How many fillies have won the classic?

How many horses have come from last in every race to run by the entire field?

Those three things, I guess they are ordinary everyday events.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by CSC

As of right now there is no critaria for selecting HOY, it is simply who each voter thinks Horse of the Yr is as White explained last night. With this you can expect open intrepretations who that is. I posted this morning that Steve was right on when he said we are so conditioned with beyers these days that alot of us underestimated her going into the Classic, winning 13 races on synth regardless if one believes the competition is bad is not as easy on the surface as it may look. Look at Richard's Kid, the results can be random...I can own up to maybe erroring on my opinion of her prior to the BC Classic and getting sucked into the void of that she was beating inferior fillies on a junk track. Regardless what she did on Sat was special, when you look at the way it all played out, no pace, losing a pace threat a min prior to post, flat footed start, and then the ease she won coming down the lane, it was a game changer and I think it's sad that people let what was a conservative campaign until the Classic get in the way of recognizing greatness.

I recognize greatness... she was great, it was an awesome performance. Yeah, she had a pretty darn good trip for a closer and the slow start is overrated for a horse with her style, but sure, it was awesome and exciting. Great, indeed.

Unfortunately for her, someone was greater. I'm not knocking Zenyatta at all... quite the contrary. If I'm knocking anything, it's her campaign, which in the big picture was not nearly as great as Rachel's. Yeah, her ace in the hole is the Classic, but that does not trump a Preakness, Haskell and Woodward win in my opinion, nor should it.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I'm having a hard time swallowing this. If taking one chance in a big race trumps taking a chance in two or three races, and winning each time, then what's next?

Come on Travis, you have seen alot of races and what Zenyatta showed was a race horse that has the will to win and with her stride she is perfect for 10 furlongs. At equal weights she would be real hard to beat at 10 f with any decent pace. AS far as HOY, it doesnt matter.

[RockHardTen1985]

Its not the better horse award... I beleive Zenyatta is better, its HOY and I beleive Rachel deserves it.

[dalakhani]

I love the fact that its even a discussion. In the last two years, we have seen four wonderful fillies in Goldikova, Zarkava, Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta.

In this argument, I have to side with the Zenyatta camp. Rachel Alexander ran a great campaign that has to be considered one for the ages so what I am saying isnt at all trying to impugn her body of work. To me, its all a circular argument anyway.

To me there is something to be said about stepping up in the brightest of lights and displaying greatness against the best. Those bright lights arent at monmouth park in august and they arent at saratoga in the first week of september. The best aren't two credible competitors in a seven horse field.

The brightest lights in horse racing in this country were at Santa Anita Park on November 7th in a full unrestricted field that was the most competitive of the of year. Zenyatta showed up and dominated and gave the performance of her life and to me the performance of the year.

Zenyatta is horse of the year in my book.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

Come on Travis, you have seen alot of races and what Zenyatta showed was a race horse that has the will to win and with her stride she is perfect for 10 furlongs. At equal weights she would be real hard to beat at 10 f with any decent pace. AS far as HOY, it doesnt matter.

She is no doubt custom made for ten panels. But she really did have a good run through the pack in that all the holes opened-up when she needed them. Yeah, she had to go and get them a bit, but she's good and that's what good ones do.

This whole HOTY debate is tough because people think you're knocking one or the other, which isn't the case at all.

Zenyatta was awesome on Saturday and it really saddens me we couldn't see her do that in a few more exciting spots. And unfortunately for them, and this is not a slap on their character at all, but I think it costs her Horse of the Year in the end. We'll see.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Zenyatta was awesome on Saturday and it really saddens me we couldn't see her do that in a few more exciting spots. And unfortunately for them, and this is not a slap on their character at all, but I think it costs her Horse of the Year in the end. We'll see.

No matter how many more "exciting spots," she would have trouble getting this award. If people want to ignore the horse that won the most money/biggest race, then they're gunna do it. Look how much trouble Gomez had before he finally got his Eclipse Award.