Top 5 best two-surface horses of the last 20 years

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Lets debate this, I am sure people will agree. Candy Ride was BRILLIANT.

In all honesty I dont really remember Formal Gold... I do REMEMBER Candy Ride and Ghostzapper and Candy Ride was much better.

You're severely under-estimating the quality of the field that Ghostzapper toyed with in the 2004 Classic. It was pretty good.

NT

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You're severely under-estimating the quality of the field that Ghostzapper toyed with in the 2004 Classic. It was pretty good.

NT

Im not under-estimating it... I never said anything about it. I will say the best horse Candy Ride ever beat was WAY BETTER then anything Ghostzapper beat.

[Gander]

You guys are nuts with the Candy Rides and Ghostzapper comparisons.
If Formal Gold and Skip Away were treated like glass figurines like them and given 3 months in between races, they would have run even better.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Gander

You guys are nuts with the Candy Rides and Ghostzapper comparisons.
If Formal Gold and Skip Away were treated like glass figurines like them and given 3 months in between races, they would have run even better.

Formal Gold was very feast or famine ... though the famine version of FG was still good enough to wipe the floor with horses like Macho Again and Bullsbay.

The feast version of FG could thump Cigar or Skip Away on an avg day.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Formal Gold was very feast or famine ... though the famine version of FG was still good enough to wipe the floor with horses like Macho Again and Bullsbay.

The feast version of FG could thump Cigar or Skip Away on an avg day.

So in your opinion, who was better Formal Gold or Candy Ride?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So in your opinion, who was better Formal Gold or Candy Ride?

One had a single giant race on dirt ... the other had four or five.

One had stretches where he wasn't a monster scattered in between sheer brilliance... the other never was beaten.

It's a tough question to answer because it really boils down to what you value in a horse.

Some people probably don't know that Formal Gold won his debut by 19 lengths with a record debut Beyer of 112.

Some people probably don't know that FG was only a pace factor in that Dubai World Cup race won by the globetrotting turf horse Singspeil off of a layoff.

There was a great FG and an ordinary FG.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

One had a single giant race on dirt ... the other had four or five.

One had stretches where he wasn't a monster scattered in between sheer brilliance... the other never was beaten.

It's a tough question to answer because it really boils down to what you value in a horse.

Some people probably don't know that Formal Gold won his debut by 19 lengths with a record debut Beyer of 112.

Some people probably don't know that FG was only a pace factor in that Dubai World Cup race won by the globetrotting turf horse Singspeil off of a layoff.

There was a great FG and an ordinary FG.

Has anyone found this race online?

When is the last time you've seen a horse run a 126 and lose?! Apparently this was all before the bounce theory too..

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Im not under-estimating it... I never said anything about it. I will say the best horse Candy Ride ever beat was WAY BETTER then anything Ghostzapper beat.

Ghostzapper did trounce Pleasantly Perfect. Now weather that was the same version that owned Medaglia d'Oro is a different debate.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Ghostzapper did trounce Pleasantly Perfect. Now weather that was the same version that owned Medaglia d'Oro is a different debate.

I was a huge fan of his, but he was a cut below the really good ones of this decade. he showed up and ran like 3 really good races, but apart from that he was just pretty good.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by Gander

I was a huge fan of his, but he was a cut below the really good ones of this decade. he showed up and ran like 3 really good races, but apart from that he was just pretty good.

I agree 100%. I just threw him in there because of the ties to MDO and Candy Ride.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Gander

I was a huge fan of his, but he was a cut below the really good ones of this decade. he showed up and ran like 3 really good races, but apart from that he was just pretty good.

PP had fell way off that year. Azeri was overmatched... The best horse Ghostzapper ever beat IMO was Roses in May. How good was he? Im not sure... Perfect Drift almost beat him, and he seemed to always get easy trips. I think Saint Liam beat him and I think RHT was WAY BETTER THEN SAINT LIAM.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

PP had fell way off that year. Azeri was overmatched... The best horse Ghostzapper ever beat IMO was Roses in May. How good was he? Im not sure... Perfect Drift almost beat him, and he seemed to always get easy trips. I think Saint Liam beat him and I think RHT was WAY BETTER THEN SAINT LIAM.

Yeah, he had really fallen apart in 2004 having only won the Dubai World Cup and Pacific Classic.

Rock Hard Ten would have been butt-hurt by Saint Liam in the 2005 BC Classic. I only wish he had run so that the hysteria with him could stop. By far and away one of the most overrated horses in the last ten years.

NT

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Yeah, he had really fallen apart in 2004 having only won the Dubai World Cup and Pacific Classic.

Rock Hard Ten would have been butt-hurt by Saint Liam in the 2005 BC Classic. I only wish he had run so that the hysteria with him could stop. By far and away one of the most overrated horses in the last ten years.

NT

O god... He beat him head to head--- Actually crushed him... Saint Liam ran 1 really good race in his career IMO and HE LOST IT. Lets not forget getting popped by Commentator.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Rock Hard Ten would have been butt-hurt by Saint Liam in the 2005 BC Classic. I only wish he had run so that the hysteria with him could stop. By far and away one of the most overrated horses in the last ten years.

NT

I would have given you more, but they limit images!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Ghostzapper did trounce Pleasantly Perfect. Now weather that was the same version that owned Medaglia d'Oro is a different debate.

Oh it was.

I thought PP ran a spectacular 3rd in the BC Classic behind Ghostzapper and Roses in May.

GZ and RIM basically had it very soft up front .. RIM especially ... but both made good of the sweet trips and ran wicked fast.

PP got crushed margin wise ... but he had to make his wide closing move into the teeth of a race shape that was not so fast early on and extremely fast late.

I was more impressed with PP's 3rd place finish - than his BC Classic win when he and Dynever got a great pace setup. IMO, MDO ran the best race in that Classic ... and Congaree finishing 4th was arguably as good as PP that day.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

PP got crushed margin wise ... but he had to make his wide closing move into the teeth of a race shape that was not so fast early on and extremely fast late.

Bailey had his head up his rear that entire day. That 10 wide move for PP on the turn was just icing on the cake.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Oh it was.

I thought PP ran a spectacular 3rd in the BC Classic behind Ghostzapper and Roses in May.

GZ and RIM basically had it very soft up front .. RIM especially ... but both made good of the sweet trips and ran wicked fast.

PP got crushed margin wise ... but he had to make his wide closing move into the teeth of a race shape that was not so fast early on and extremely fast late.

I was more impressed with PP's 3rd place finish - than his BC Classic win when he and Dynever got a great pace setup. IMO, MDO ran the best race in that Classic ... and Congaree finishing 4th was arguably as good as PP that day.

DAM

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Im not under-estimating it... I never said anything about it. I will say the best horse Candy Ride ever beat was WAY BETTER then anything Ghostzapper beat.

I just never bought into the hype machine that raged after his Pacific Classic win. Don't get me wrong, he ran great but I think the fact that we saw so little of him has added to the esteem he's held in, especially by people on message boards.

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I just never bought into the hype machine that raged after his Pacific Classic win. Don't get me wrong, he ran great but I think the fact that we saw so little of him has added to the esteem he's held in, especially by people on message boards.

I don't know.

That horse was pretty real.

Had he and Medaglia D' Oro switched trips in the Pacific Classic - and he was the one allowed to make his own pace real nice - I think you could call Candy Ride into question a little bit... as kind of a decorated South American turf horse - who got his one giant number with a candy trip. That's not what happened though.

But yeah - a case can be made that the equally fragile Mazel Trick was a better dirt horse because he had two supreme dirt races instead of one. And who, other than me, ever talks about Mazel Trick?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

But yeah - a case can be made that the equally fragile Mazel Trick was a better dirt horse because he had two supreme dirt races instead of one. And who, other than me, ever talks about Mazel Trick?

Uhm?????

You mean besides me? I don't think most people here ever even saw that horse run.