Summer Bird could be HOY

Cannon Shell · #1 10-05-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

OK, so how do you explain Zenyatta beating that slug last out by a nose if the slow pace didn't matter?

I'm sorry you don't understand how it can work both ways. It is pretty obvious when you make pace figures for a living. In the Past the Point race, Curlin ran about 10 Beyer points faster to the pace call than he did any other route race in his life to maintain his usual stalking position. Of course he wasn't going to have his usual finishing kick.

Zenyatta is an out the back of the pack dead closer. Curlin wasnt.

While I can understand that he didnt have his usual closing kick, he barely had enough to outfinish the horse who set that wicked pace.

All I am saying is that Curlin was not nearly as great as his overzealous owner and fans seem to think and that his less than fantastic final race lowered his stature enough that he has already seemingly been passed by RA.

cmorioles · #2 10-05-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Zenyatta is an out the back of the pack dead closer. Curlin wasnt.

While I can understand that he didnt have his usual closing kick, he barely had enough to outfinish the horse who set that wicked pace.

All I am saying is that Curlin was not nearly as great as his overzealous owner and fans seem to think and that his less than fantastic final race lowered his stature enough that he has already seemingly been passed by RA.

Anyone that thinks his race on rubber proved anything about the kind of horse he was knows nothing about betting this sport. I don't really care what "fans" think, they don't bet anyway.

Barely outfinish? He won by a length and a quarter, not a desperate nose.

The Indomitable DrugS · #3 10-05-2009, 06:20 PM

Curlin, overrated and all, very likely would have killed those two Euro's and Tiago on dirt.

Not beaten them .... killed them.

Danzig · #4 10-05-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Curlin, overrated and all, very likely would have killed those two Euro's and Tiago on dirt.

Not beaten them .... killed them.

i agree. fwiw.

TropicalStorm · #5 10-05-2009, 07:37 PM

Curlin would not have beaten Ravens Pass on the dirt or anything. Maybe earlier in his career but he was nothing special at the end of his 4yr old year. It was a long year that started in Dubai. Ravens Pass could run on anything. His pedigree was fine for dirt. He was a great horse.

cmorioles · #6 10-05-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrossfireHurricane

Curlin would not have beaten Ravens Pass on the dirt or anything. Maybe earlier in his career but he was nothing special at the end of his 4yr old year. It was a long year that started in Dubai. Ravens Pass could run on anything. His pedigree was fine for dirt. He was a great horse.

How do you possibly know he could run on dirt?

NTamm1215 · #7 10-05-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How do you possibly know he could run on dirt?

Oh gosh, he was by Elusive Quality, doesn't that mean he could run on dirt?

I've learned lately in this place to not step on the toes of the clairvoyant. They're out in abundance.

NT

brianwspencer · #8 10-05-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrossfireHurricane

Curlin would not have beaten Ravens Pass on the dirt or anything. Maybe earlier in his career but he was nothing special at the end of his 4yr old year. It was a long year that started in Dubai. Ravens Pass could run on anything. His pedigree was fine for dirt. He was a great horse.

gamblin4ever · #9 10-06-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Curlin, overrated and all, very likely would have killed those two Euro's and Tiago on dirt.

Not beaten them .... killed them.

The Euros wouldnt have raced if on dirt and Tiago was nothing special period. The only reason the Euros came over is the race was on synthetics. IMO

Revidere · #10 10-05-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Anyone that thinks his race on rubber proved anything about the kind of horse he was knows nothing about betting this sport. I don't really care what "fans" think, they don't bet anyway.

Barely outfinish? He won by a length and a quarter, not a desperate nose.

The Breeder's Cup just proved he was over the top since his Dubai race. He was extended to beat Past the Point and extended to beat Wanderin Boy. Thats the view from this betting "fan".

The horse threw a 22 second 4th quarter in the Breeder's Cup and hit the wall at the 1/8 pole. all earmarks of a horse that has seen his best days behind him.

He was a real good horse, not an all time great.

Travis Stone · #11 10-05-2009, 10:30 PM

Everyone wants to talk about his 4-year-old year, but how about Curlin's BC Classic performance and his gutsy win over Lawyer Ron at Belmont? Sure, Lawyer was not at his ideal track and was on the way down, but it was still a solid win over a good handicap horse. I thought his Classic win was most impressive visually... he strided-out powerfully against the very underrated Hard Spun. Add to it he wins the Preakness with little experience against Street Sense who was in career form with the better trip to boot.

Yeah, he wasn't Secretariat... but he was talented.