Why no talk about the breakdowns at Santa Anita this weekend?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

These threads are annoying. Every time a horse breaks down, we don't need someone with an obvious agenda to use some horse's tragic demise as evidence that his/her opinion on synthetics v. dirt is somehow legitimized(especially when the statement as to Belmont having no breakdowns on Saturday was factually inaccurate).

Personally, I prefer that all racing be conducted over safe dirt surfaces. But I consistently fail to understand why the "Poly haters" deny/forget the carnage that befell tracks like Del Mar and Arlington before they installed Polytrack. These surface switches didn't just happen in a vacuum, after all.

Almost as annoying as iditotic horse of the year threads

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I didnt know jockeys being paralyzed was limited to polytrack. Of course the horse falling on top of Douglas and laying there may have had something to do with it.

So thats why the jockey's were refusing to race afraid horses were going to fall on them?

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The 3/5 shot was trained by Mitchell. His horses breaking down is hardly a shocking occurrence on any surface. Not to mention the 3/5 shot did not "snap" his leg as he bowed a tendon. Your argument may have some validity but hyperbole and inaccuracies dont help.

Bowed tendon? wow hmmm do we believe everything we read? Ive never seen a horse pull up like that for a bowed tendon.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kgar311

So thats why the jockey's were refusing to race afraid horses were going to fall on them?

They were understandably shook up. But the ironic thing was neither injured jock rode a horse that brokedown when they got hurt.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Bowed tendon? wow hmmm do we believe everything we read? Ive never seen a horse pull up like that for a bowed tendon.

Well Mitchell would have no problem lying, however it is hard to hide the injury in front of thousands of people including the state vet. And are you able to accurately tell what injury a horse has sustained when pulled up? If so you and Riot and Dionne Warwick should start the Physic Friends Network, equine division.

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Bowed tendon? wow hmmm do we believe everything we read? Ive never seen a horse pull up like that for a bowed tendon.

How are you glossing over the fact, which Chuck mentioned, that 2 horses broke down at Belmont on Saturday (which you first said never happened) ??

Should we stop running on mud too? Give it a rest.

[TropicalStorm]

I don't know which is sadder? A horse breaking down or the original poster using the tragedy to push an agenda.

It is just as pathetic as someone using the death in a shooting to push an anti-gun agenda.

Horses breakdown for many reasons. Usually it is just bad luck.

Does the original poster blame dirt for the death of Barbaro, or Eight Belles, or Pine Island?

If you don't like polytrack that is fine. Just say it and don't bet it.

The fact is polytrack has basically given the US more turf racing, because that is how it plays almost all the time.

The anti-dirt people were annoying and now the anti-synthetic people are equally annoying.

I know the Europeans have no problem with the synthetic. So like eveything some like it and some don't.

If you do not like it do not bet it. Sounds like Bob Baffert seems to have no problem with it now that he is winning on it. I would guess the gamblers that don't like it would like it if they were winning money on it.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by kgar311

So thats why the jockey's were refusing to race afraid horses were going to fall on them?

If the horses were made of rubber and "plastic" .......

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Bowed tendon? wow hmmm do we believe everything we read? Ive never seen a horse pull up like that for a bowed tendon.

The horse certainly did not look like he broke a leg. It's usually not too hard to tell when a horse breaks a leg. When they break a leg, they usually can't put any weight on the leg.

This horse (Grazen) actually bowed both tendons.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by CrossfireHurricane

I don't know which is sadder? A horse breaking down or the original poster using the tragedy to push an agenda.

It is just as pathetic as someone using the death in a shooting to push an anti-gun agenda.

Horses breakdown for many reasons. Usually it is just bad luck.

Does the original poster blame dirt for the death of Barbaro, or Eight Belles, or Pine Island?

If you don't like polytrack that is fine. Just say it and don't bet it.

The fact is polytrack has basically given the US more turf racing, because that is how it plays almost all the time.

The anti-dirt people were annoying and now the anti-synthetic people are equally annoying.

I know the Europeans have no problem with the synthetic. So like eveything some like it and some don't.

If you do not like it do not bet it. Sounds like Bob Baffert seems to have no problem with it now that he is winning on it. I would guess the gamblers that don't like it would like it if they were winning money on it.

I would have to strongly disagree with your assertion that breakdowns are usually the result of bad luck. It is possible for a sound horse to take a bad step and break down but it is very rare. Most horses that break down are horses that have soundness issues. The condition of the track plays a role too. When you have an unsafe track, you will have a lot more injuries.

But it is very rare for a sound horse to snap their leg.

Originally Posted by CrossfireHurricane

I don't know which is sadder? A horse breaking down or the original poster using the tragedy to push an agenda.

It is just as pathetic as someone using the death in a shooting to push an anti-gun agenda.

Horses breakdown for many reasons. Usually it is just bad luck.

Does the original poster blame dirt for the death of Barbaro, or Eight Belles, or Pine Island?

If you don't like polytrack that is fine. Just say it and don't bet it.

The fact is polytrack has basically given the US more turf racing, because that is how it plays almost all the time.

The anti-dirt people were annoying and now the anti-synthetic people are equally annoying.

I know the Europeans have no problem with the synthetic. So like eveything some like it and some don't.

If you do not like it do not bet it. Sounds like Bob Baffert seems to have no problem with it now that he is winning on it. I would guess the gamblers that don't like it would like it if they were winning money on it.

Ahh the voice of reason..sans the haterade for Jackson.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The horse certainly did not look like he broke a leg. It's usually not too hard to tell when a horse breaks a leg. When they break a leg, they usually can't put any weight on the leg.

This horse (Grazen) actually bowed both tendons.

So I ask again, isnt the softer, cushioned, poly surface suppose to prevent this kind of stuff?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by kgar311

So I ask again, isnt the softer, cushioned, poly surface suppose to prevent this kind of stuff?

It has nothing to do with if it's softer or not. It's how the horse's hoof interacts with it versus dirt.

And you can run an unsound horse on a bed of feathers and it will still break down.

No one claimed that it would eliminate injuries. You make it sound like there was a money back guarantee or something. I hate poly a little less than most here, but am not blind to it's issues. But to call it out as the sole reason a horse breaks down is not correct.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kgar311

So I ask again, isnt the softer, cushioned, poly surface suppose to prevent this kind of stuff?

The synthetic surfaces out here in California have not lived up to expectation. They have had a lot of problems with the synthetics here. The track at Del Mar was terrible this meet. Every trainer I talked to was having problems at Del Mar. The track at Hollywood this past meet was not good either. They did some work on the track at Hollywood in late August or early September and everyone seems happy with it right now. I'm hopeful that the track at Hollywood stays safe when the meet starts in November.

I've heard mixed things about Santa Anita at the present time. I guess it's all relative. They say that the track is much better right now than it was a couple of months ago. A couple of months ago, they actually had to close the track for about a week in August. They were getting a ton of soft-tissue injuries. They did a lot of work on the track in August and it is better now but it's still not great. Hollywood is much better than Santa Anita right now.

In hindsight, I wish they didn't put in the synthetics here. Don't get me wrong, they needed to do something. The tracks were really bad here at the time and they needed to do something. They should have probably just forced each tracks to put in a new base. Most of these tracks had a base that was 40 or 50 years old. There were holes in the bases of the tracks. You will obviously have an uneven surface if you have holes in the base. They could have just put in a new base at each track and then put whatever surface they wanted on top. That is what they probably should have done.

Even though they have had major problems with the synthetics out here, that doesn't mean that synthetics are all bad. I think the track at Arlington has been a huge success. I believe field sizes have gone way up. The horses are staying much sounder and there are fewer breakdowns. I haven't seen the actual numbers but that is what I have heard. Cannon Shell would probably have more info on the numbers.

So to answer your question, there are supposed to be fewer injuries on synthetic but I don't think it has really worked in California. It has worked in other places. I'm not really sure why. Some people believe that the track crews out here simply do not know how to maintain the synthetics. The maintenance of a synthetic track is totally different from the maintenance of a dirt track.

[MISTERGEE]

didnt 2 more horses suffer fractures on Sunday in the Norfolk

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

didnt 2 more horses suffer fractures on Sunday in the Norfolk

I hadn't heard that. Do you know which horses?

[gamblin4ever]

Horses are going to breakdown no matter what surface they are on, its just the nature of the business.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

didnt 2 more horses suffer fractures on Sunday in the Norfolk

http://www.drf.com/news/article/107843.html

The two that deadheated for 4th suffered condylar fractures.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I was watching Grazen's race and thinking to myself:

'why is that IDIOT Gomez hellbent on PUSHING Grazen to the lead from the rail, when all he has to do is sit BEHIND Lethal Heat?'

I blame GG's ride for the breakdown in that instance. Putting undue/extra/unnecessary pressure on a game horse is not exactly the best way to go about things.

As for my 'defense' of POLY: I prefer FAIR tracks to all the SPEED FAVORING BIAS BS that is DIRT tracks. Moreover, I'm making a killing playing WO, AP, and the CALI POLY tracks. So much so, that I don't even bother with NYRA tracks (or any of the other dirt/turf tracks I used to play). Bet if I were a Beyer fanatic, I'd be bitching with the rest of you (losers).

P.S. I'd look more closely at TRAINING methods and RIDES by Jocks if I wanted to get to the bottom of why horses break down.

Apparently the trainer disagrees 100% with you. Nice job Fatman.



Gomez credited as a lifesaver
By Steve Andersen


ARCADIA, Calif. - Just before 9 a.m, Sunday, while standing among scores of horsemen and racing fans at Clocker's Corner here, trainer Mike Mitchell and jockey Garrett Gomez took a moment to review the events of Saturday's $200,000 California Cup Classic.

Gomez had turned for home with the lead on the Mitchell-trained Grazen, but quickly pulled up the colt inside the eighth pole when he felt him take a funny step. Just like that, Grazen's promising career was over with a bowed tendon.

"I thanked Garrett for his savvy," Mitchell said of his Sunday morning conversation. "He was able to save my horse. We didn't have to put him down."

[Riot]

Originally Posted by kgar311

I bring it up because this is the surface, in a months time, that will be host to the breeders cup. I believe that owners and trainers from around the world have their eye on this meet and to see a 3/5 shot in a 200k race ( not some 5k claimer) snap their leg coming down the stretch it brings into question if owner and trainers will take the chance on going on this surface.
Remember this was the "cure all" for breakdowns and now seems to be doing more harm than good.

First, you might review some pretty grim Breeder's Cup days of the past on a variety of dirt surfaces.

Secondly, no, these surfaces were NEVER touted as the "cure all" for breakdowns. They were put forth as decreasing the number of catastrophic breakdowns. Which, to date, they do.