Who thinks...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Yes, Rupert, I agree with what you said. The only thing I don't agree with is that they may be taking it a bit too far, in that they are wiretapping and checking emails of most or all of the calls coming in and out of the U.S. At least, that is what I have heard. There is also some speculation that they are looking at student college records too. Of course, I don't have anything to hide, and I don't know why they would be looking at student's records, but I don't know how I would feel about them looking at mine.

Also, the Supreme Court ruled against Bush's legislation to disregard Article 3 of the Geneva Convention. Other GOPs are really starting to talk out against Bush, and say that he is going too far with these things. This is a topic of huge debate right now, and you can find it in many different articles.

On a lighter note, they actually are making a really smart move in Baghdad in that they are going to build trenches around the city and are going to start controlling traffic coming in and out of the city...checkpoints like those we have by police officers here in the U.S. I think that will be very helpful.

Jessica, I have no idea where you got that information. That is completely false. Our government does not wiretap and check e-mails of all calls that come into this country. First of all, it would be impossible. They don't have the manpower. Anyway, that's irrelevant. Nobody has accused the government of doing that. The controversy was that they were eavesdropping on people in this country who had been communicating with known terrorists overseas. That was what the controversy was over. I can't belive that anyone would have a problem with this. I guess people were upset that they were doing it without getting a warrant from a judge. Our government's argument is that it is a highly secretive program and they don't want to have to get permission from a judge to get a wiretap on a person that they know has been communicating with known terrorists. In addition, I don't think that CIA agents and other government operatives want a judge to tell them how to do an investigation.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Jessica, I have no idea where you got that information. That is completely false. Our government does not wiretap and check e-mails of all calls that come into this country. First of all, it would be impossible. They don't have the manpower. Anyway, that's irrelevant. Nobody has accused the government of doing that. The controversy was that they were eavesdropping on people in this country who had been communicating with known terrorists overseas. That was what the controversy was over. I can't belive that anyone would have a problem with this. I guess people were upset that they were doing it without getting a warrant from a judge. Our government's argument is that it is a highly secretive program and they don't want to have to get permission from a judge to get a wiretap on a person that they know has been communicating with known terrorists. In addition, I don't think that CIA agents and other government operatives want a judge to tell them how to do an investigation.

All of this information is available in all kinds of different articles Rupert both right wing and left wing. I don't feel like pulling them up because you will ignore what they say even if I do. I don't have a problem with them eavesdropping in on people who are contacting known or suspected terrorists, but according to some of these articles, they are doing more than that. Our government is doing a lot of things wrong. That is why some of Bush's former strong GOP supporters, such as John Warner of VA, are even starting to disagree with him. This is all over the news.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

All of this information is available in all kinds of different articles Rupert both right wing and left wing. I don't feel like pulling them up because you will ignore what they say even if I do. I don't have a problem with them eavesdropping in on people who are contacting known or suspected terrorists, but according to some of these articles, they are doing more than that. Our government is doing a lot of things wrong. That is why some of Bush's former strong GOP supporters, such as John Warner of VA, are even starting to disagree with him. This is all over the news.

Most of the stuff on the news right now has to do with interrogations and the Geneva Convention.

Nobody has accused them of wiretapping phones of anyone except associates of known terrorists. I challenge you to show me one article that says otherwise.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Most of the stuff on the news right now has to do with interrogations and the Geneva Convention.

Nobody has accused them of wiretapping phones of anyone except associates of known terrorists. I challenge you to show me one article that says otherwise.

This is an article about the wiretapping lawsuit from Law.com, including the list of plantiffs, accusing the gov't of wiretapping them. Including Christopher Hitchens, conservative columnist and Iraq war supporter. Hitchens and the ACLU suing over the same issue. The Bush cabal can make for strange bedfellows, can't it?

Anyway, here's the article you challenged anyone to show you. Warning; it's a law journal, so it's dry.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1157629871242

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

This is an article about the wiretapping lawsuit from Law.com, including the list of plantiffs, accusing the gov't of wiretapping them. Including Christopher Hitchens, conservative columnist and Iraq war supporter. Hitchens and the ACLU suing over the same issue. The Bush cabal can make for strange bedfellows, can't it?

Anyway, here's the article you challenged anyone to show you. Warning; it's a law journal, so it's dry.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1157629871242

The article said those people had contacts overseas. These people must have had communications with suspected terrorists overseas. That is the only thing that will lead to a wiretap. Show me one person whose phone was wiretaped that did not have contact with known or suspected terrorists overseas. Even Bush' biggest critics have not accused him of wiretaps on people that did not have contacts with suspected or known terrorists overseas.

[Danzig]

from what i've seen, it had to do with people with contact with known or suspected terrorists or terror groups, and anyone who supports them-under the guise of a charity for example....it's not like anyone is randomly selecting phones to tap. they have a real and compelling reason for it.

all i know is the results are there--no attack in five years, several attacks still in the planning stage thwarted. don't want your phone tapped? don't hang out with bin laden and his ilk...or send them money.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The article said those people had contacts overseas. These people must have had communications with suspected terrorists overseas. That is the only thing that will lead to a wiretap. Show me one person whose phone was wiretaped that did not have contact with known or suspected terrorists overseas. Even Bush' biggest critics have not accused him of wiretaps on people that did not have contacts with suspected or known terrorists overseas.

If these people had contacts with known terrorists overseas, don't you think that it would be rather stupid and pointless to try to sue over it? I really don't think that people would go to that much trouble if it wasn't legitimate. John McCain and John Warner are getting fed up with the Bush administration. Something is going on in that White House that is not supposed to be for our country is torn in half. We need a strong leader to get the people back together again. I personally believe that John McCain could do this. I really like that guy.

[Danzig]

oh lord...there are frivolous lawsuits filed every day!! filing suit doesn't mean a thing!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

If these people had contacts with known terrorists overseas, don't you think that it would be rather stupid and pointless to try to sue over it? I really don't think that people would go to that much trouble if it wasn't legitimate. John McCain and John Warner are getting fed up with the Bush administration. Something is going on in that White House that is not supposed to be for our country is torn in half. We need a strong leader to get the people back together again. I personally believe that John McCain could do this. I really like that guy.

The article said that the people suing were scholars and journalists. They were basically saying, "We're not terrorists. We are scholars and journalists. Why are you wiretapping our phones?"

All the governmnet knows is that their phone numbers were in the phone books of terrorists that were apprehended overseas. These people are not going to get a special pass just because theya re scholars and journalists. The government tapped thier phones, and fully investigated these people. I'm sure that once the government was satisfied that these people were not terrorirsts, they left them alone.

Why would the government want to tap someone's phone for no reason? They don't have time to be tapping people's phones for the hell of it. There are 300 million people in this country. the government barely has the manpower to tap the phones of suspected terrorists let alone other people.

By the way, the article even said that the people who were suing the goverment had overseas contacts.

Anyway, as I said before nobody has accused the governemnt of tapping the phones of anyone other than people who were talking to suspected terrorists. The issue is whether or not the goverment has the right to tap the phones of US citizens that have been communicating with known or suspected terrorists. The more specific question is whether the government has the rigth to do it without obtaining a warrant from a judge. That is the issue and that is what the debate has been about.