Travers Buzz: Quality Road a yes..

[tector]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

There were a few things that annoyed me about them today and normally I'm more forgiving, but there was the weird implication before the Travers that there's only one 3yr championship that QR could get because RA didn't show. I forget the exact wording, but that was the idea it sounded like they meant, and of course that's ridiculous as they could both get 3yo honors for their respective genders hypothetically. I know they know it, but that's not how it came out. It's fake drama. I'm liking the new season of Jockeys and would really appreciate it if Corey Nakatani could come sucker punch somebody.

That would be entertaining at least.

I watched the HRTV broadcast first, then watched the whole ESPN show in HD on my DVR, skipping through the talk about the other races. Other than Hank's observation that he was playing against QR because he thought QR might be a short horse, EVERY single thing they said about the race turned out to be utterly wrongheaded, which is pretty remarkable since it was won by a 5-2 shot, not some monster longshot. But the most aggravating thing they all harped on was that "RA needed to be here"? Really--why? Because it is one of the few races you show now, having eviscerated your horse racing coverage? Gee, it turns out she beat your Travers winner by a half dozen last time out. (BTW, SB seems to be a mighty fine horse).

RA is running in open company next weekend. Anybody who wanted a piece of her could show up there. When I suggested that QR might want to consider that, I got mocked. Doesn't seem so crazy now, does it? But his connections had their agenda, regardless of how sensible the methods that had to be employed
.
As an aside, I don't know where this NYRA propaganda about the Travers being a "must" comes from. Secretariat didn't run in the Travers--he went to the Whitney. His stablemate, Riva Ridge, blew it off as well. I'm sure if looked I could find plenty more examples.

RA is running the most aggressive campaign of any 3yo filly in modern times. Screw all the whiners--just show up and beat her already. The rest is all BS loser talk.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by tector

That would be entertaining at least.

I watched the HRTV broadcast first, then watched the whole ESPN show in HD on my DVR, skipping through the talk about the other races. Other than Hank's observation that he was playing against QR because he thought QR might be a short horse, EVERY single thing they said about the race turned out to be utterly wrongheaded, which is pretty remarkable since it was won by a 5-2 shot, not some monster longshot. But the most aggravating thing they all harped on was that "RA needed to be here"? Really--why? Because it is one of the few races you show now, having eviscerated your horse racing coverage? Gee, it turns out she beat your Travers winner by a half dozen last time out. (BTW, SB seems to be a mighty fine horse).

RA is running in open company next weekend. Anybody who wanted a piece of her could show up there. When I suggested that QR might want to consider that, I got mocked. Doesn't seem so crazy now, does it? But his connections had their agenda, regardless of how sensible the methods that had to be employed
.
As an aside, I don't know where this NYRA propaganda about the Travers being a "must" comes from. Secretariat didn't run in the Travers--he went to the Whitney. His stablemate, Riva Ridge, blew it off as well. I'm sure if looked I could find plenty more examples.

RA is running the most aggressive campaign of any 3yo filly in modern times. Screw all the whiners--just show up and beat her already. The rest is all BS loser talk.

Serena's Song might have an argument with the last paragraph. Winning Colors too.

[tector]

Neither ever ran in open company as a 3YO. WC never did.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by tector

Neither ever ran in open company as a 3YO. WC never did.

I get that but open company doesn't necessarily mean the toughest competition. Easy Goer faced tougher competition in his own division from Sunday Silence than he did in open company when winning the Whitney and JCGC. Winning Colors facing Personal Ensign in the Maskette and BC Distaff is a much tougher challenge than Rachel facing Bullsbay and Asiatic Boy in the Woodward. Running in the Travers today would have been facing tougher competition than she'll get in the Woodward. Winning Colors faced the boys in all three TC races plus the SA Derby then ended it with two against a hall of famer. Serena's Song won the Jim Beam and the Haskell against males and later beat older mares Heavenly Prize and Lakeway (no slouches there) in the Beldame. I'd argue that facing Heavenly Prize and Lakeway was a tougher challenge than what Rachel will face next week. For me, it's not the race name but the competition faced that settles it for me.

[tector]

She just beat today's winner by a half dozen.

What you are saying is that her competition is lousy. She has no control over that. Open company means you are taking all comers--you can't be any more aggressive than that.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Yeah .. it was certainly a nice day for the company line of her form.

Not only did the horse she just destroyed in the Haskell win the Travers - but an ice cold on the board Sara Louise got the job done.

Even though Sara Louise beat RA at a mile ... it was around one-turn .. RA has been flawless around two turns.

[tector]

I will readily concede that other 3YO fillies faced tougher competition. But when a top 3YO filly is running in open company, that is almost unheard of in the US in recent decades. I recall that in 1990 there were calls for GFW to go to the Classic, which was viewed as a suspect bunch. That Dupont broad was conservative, and wanted to keep her with the girls.

Oh well.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah .. it was certainly a nice day for the company line of her form.

Not only did the horse she just destroyed in the Haskell win the Travers - but an ice cold on the board Sara Louise got the job done.

Even though Sara Louise beat RA at a mile ... it was around one-turn .. RA has been flawless around two turns.

i think rachel had some traffic trouble that day as well-i read something to that effect.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by tector

She just beat today's winner by a half dozen.

What you are saying is that her competition is lousy. She has no control over that. Open company means you are taking all comers--you can't be any more aggressive that.

I don't think it's lousy. After watching today's Travers, I went back and watched her Haskell again and was even more impressed with how she toyed with Summer Bird. I understand that she doesn't control who enters against her and I also understand that open company generally means you are taking on the best. But it's not always the case. If Rachel's people announce after this race that she's going in the Beldame and then Zenyatta's people say they are going to challenge her, that would be more aggressive than staying home for the Goodwood wouldn't it? Sure, the Beldame is restricted and the Goodwood is open but which one would honestly be the bigger challenge to you?

[tector]

I think you have a problem with vocabulary.

She can only go where she goes--she can't control who is willing to show up. Your example requires the highly unlikely event that Team Zenyatta grows a pair. Obviously RA will show up for that if she is still healthy--but as you state it, she has no control over all that: the nutless bunch in CA have to act first. That is reacting and, in this case, reacting to imaginary events that are unlikely to happen. So while you are pondering what will be very likely counterfactuals, Team RA have to choose real races to run in--and they are choosing them very aggressively.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by tector

.
As an aside, I don't know where this NYRA propaganda about the Travers being a "must" comes from. Secretariat didn't run in the Travers--he went to the Whitney. His stablemate, Riva Ridge, blew it off as well. I'm sure if looked I could find plenty more examples. .

Secretariat was using the Whitney as his prep for the Travers; it was run 4 days before the relatively minor Jim Dandy that year (4 August vs. 8 August). The Travers was run on 18 August so the plan would have given him two full weeks between races instead of 10 days. But he lost the Whitney and his connections decided he needed some time off before the fall campaign, leaving the Travers to be won by the immortal Annihilate 'Em.

I'm not sure that Riva Ridge ran at all in the late summer/early fall.

The Travers was a classic race long before the Preakness was. Now that the NYRA has emasculated its races for older horses (Woodward down to 9f, the Saratoga BC Cup eliminated, JCGC cut 6f, heck the Whitney even used to be 10f), the Travers is one of the few G1 races left for real racehorses.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

the Travers is one of the few G1 races left for real racehorses.

So the Woodward is going to have fake race horses?

[Travis Stone]

The over-hyped on Quality Road comes from his odds, which were probably a bit low. Betting against him was an easy 1-2-3 given the setup and scenario though, so the negative reactions are kinda lame in my opinion.

He ran really well and discounting him just because he couldn't win the 10 furlong Travers off a 6 1/2 furlong prep which was his first race since March seems shortsighted. Not to mention he hasn't gone two turns since March either.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The over-hyped on Quality Road comes from his odds, which were probably a bit low. Betting against him was an easy 1-2-3 given the setup and scenario though, so the negative reactions are kinda lame in my opinion.

He ran really well and discounting him just because he couldn't win the 10 furlong Travers off a 6 1/2 furlong prep which was his first race since March seems shortsighted. Not to mention he hasn't gone two turns since March either.

Quality Road may very well still be the best 3 year old colt..Yesterdays race did nothing to suggest that he won't be the colt that many preceive him to be. I think Cannon Shell said it best when he suggested that it was the owners decision to run in the Travers not Pletchers. I don't blame the owner, you certainly see his name on millions of dollars of stock year after year and winning the Travers is certainly what any owner dreams about. I do feel that in general more good is done for the game with the LaPenta/Zito approach then the super conservative approach cannon Shell was alluding too. You constantly see Zito/LaPenta throwing there hat in the ring on big days and they have certainly done much more good then they have done bad.

Back to reality, Quality Road connections took a shot, he didn't run poorly, was beat by a colt that was better conditioned, and perhaps justed as talented(?), and we all got to see a fairly decent Travers. If you bet on Quality Road and are a fan because of what he has done in the past I find it strange you could or would have had your opinion change from yesterdays 3rd place finish???

As for Rachel, since everything revolves around the lust I have for her.. She certainly was flattered by the relative ease that Summer Bird won. He is certainly no matche for her abilty.

As for Mine that Bird, congrats to the connections for taking a deep breathe and not pushing the gelding. Hopefully this neat little guy will be around G1 races for a few years.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Quality Road may very well still be the best 3 year old colt..Yesterdays race did nothing to suggest that he won't be the colt that many preceive him to be. I think Cannon Shell said it best when he suggested that it was the owners decision to run in the Travers not Pletchers. I don't blame the owner, you certainly see his name on millions of dollars of stock year after year and winning the Travers is certainly what any owner dreams about. I do feel that in general more good is done for the game with the LaPenta/Zito approach then the super conservative approach cannon Shell was alluding too. You constantly see Zito/LaPenta throwing there hat in the ring on big days and they have certainly done much more good then they have done bad.

Back to reality, Quality Road connections took a shot, he didn't run poorly, was beat by a colt that was better conditioned, and perhaps justed as talented(?), and we all got to see a fairly decent Travers. If you bet on Quality Road and are a fan because of what he has done in the past I find it strange you could or would have had your opinion change from yesterdays 3rd place finish???

As for Rachel, since everything revolves around the lust I have for her.. She certainly was flattered by the relative ease that Summer Bird won. He is certainly no matche for her abilty.

As for Mine that Bird, congrats to the connections for taking a deep breathe and not pushing the gelding. Hopefully this neat little guy will be around G1 races for a few years.

Well said Freddy.

[tector]

If QR comes out of the race fine, then no harm done. But too many times in recent times we have this scenario play out differently.

[tector]

Dalakhani,

I am sorry if this not explicit enough for you, and since I know you think context is nothing it will probably not satisfy you, but to people without such agendas, it is pretty plain that I thought QR was pretty suspect trying this path:

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...037#post559037

I love the people elsewhere who think RA is running away from QR. If anything, this is the race to take a shot at him.

Again, if he bounces back solidly, no harm. But that remains to be seen. And I am raising this issue BEFORE anybody announces any thing wrong with him, so you can shut the hell up later if it happens. I am not predicting it, but it is close to 50-50 to me, from the way things tend to go in horse racing nowadays.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by tector

If QR comes out of the race fine, then no harm done. But too many times in recent times we have this scenario play out differently.

The colt has not exactly been the soundest colt on the planet. They get hurt training, shipping and every other way imagineable. The colt raced fine. He is certainly talented and has a fine trainer that could get to his ultimate potential evidentually if he stayed sound..The big issue is the clock, Is there any shot he isn't servicing mares Feb 1 10 instead of at Paysons Park still in training getting ready for the Donn? If so, we will be lucky that Evans kept what could be a real fine colt in training. More likely, it will be 100 mares at 25k a pop.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Secretariat was using the Whitney as his prep for the Travers; it was run 4 days before the relatively minor Jim Dandy that year (4 August vs. 8 August). The Travers was run on 18 August so the plan would have given him two full weeks between races instead of 10 days. But he lost the Whitney and his connections decided he needed some time off before the fall campaign, leaving the Travers to be won by the immortal Annihilate 'Em.

I'm not sure that Riva Ridge ran at all in the late summer/early fall.

The Travers was a classic race long before the Preakness was. Now that the NYRA has emasculated its races for older horses (Woodward down to 9f, the Saratoga BC Cup eliminated, JCGC cut 6f, heck the Whitney even used to be 10f), the Travers is one of the few G1 races left for real racehorses.

The Breeder Cup made most G1 races after July preps.. NYRA had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately the demise of G1 racing after July to BC Preps is a by-product of Championship day where champions are sometimes wrongfully crowned. I love the Breeders Cup and think it's wonderful but it certainly F'd up the horse racing environment.

[tector]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Secretariat was using the Whitney as his prep for the Travers; it was run 4 days before the relatively minor Jim Dandy that year (4 August vs. 8 August). The Travers was run on 18 August so the plan would have given him two full weeks between races instead of 10 days. But he lost the Whitney and his connections decided he needed some time off before the fall campaign, leaving the Travers to be won by the immortal Annihilate 'Em.

I'm not sure that Riva Ridge ran at all in the late summer/early fall.

The Travers was a classic race long before the Preakness was. Now that the NYRA has emasculated its races for older horses (Woodward down to 9f, the Saratoga BC Cup eliminated, JCGC cut 6f, heck the Whitney even used to be 10f), the Travers is one of the few G1 races left for real racehorses.

Riva Ridge ran once in August and twice in September, which is exactly what Secretariat did. In neither case did their connections take a "hell or high water" approach to the Travers. Obviously it is great, historical race. But it is not viewed as essential to any 3YO except by NYRA and now the shills at ESPN. For example, neither Spectacular Bid, Unbridled or Spend A Buck ran in it, and all ran elsewhere in the August of their 3YO years. And, of course, all kinds of California horses have skipped it. And I have never before seen some kind of demand that a filly has to run in it. This is all horsecrap of recent vintage (i.e. this year) because NYRA and ESPN wanted RA there, like either of them is owed anything.