Rachel Alexandra to Woodward

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Linny

The problem with last year's Travers was last years crop. Other than BB, they just stunk. Yes TOE was the Cigar Mile and Harlem Rocker was a nice colt, beating Bribon (even at a mile) doesn't make you a world beater. The Cigar Mile was like the Travers, a solid evenly matched bunch but not strong, relative to other runnings.
Yes Cool Coal Man is coming to hand well right now (like his sire, a nice 4yo) and Macho Again, when he wants to be and when the situation is right, is a nice horse but as Sightseek pointed out, those two won major races because someone had too.
Comparing renewals of a given race I like to look at what I'd do if all of last years pp's were intesgrated into this years pp's for the same race. For obvious reasons its impossible but comparing such things is always speculative. Is there any horse who's pp's from last years Travers make you think he'd beat the major contenders in this year's running?

Maybe it wasn't the greatest field of all time but it wasn't the worse either. As I pointed out many of these horses have had time off(injuries) and I also pointed out many have gone on to win Gr.1's. The someone had to win argument is an opinion I can only agree or disagree with, it was a blanket statement. From what I have read from Sightseek, she is a knowledgable poster. So the comment was a little dissapointing after I used some examples that last yrs Travers was not as bad as what is widely believed. Maybe I had hoped for a better explanation, we will just have to wait and see what Colonel John does the rest of the year, where I was wrong earlier in the year on his winning return on turf, hey even I can get it wrong now and then.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Do you take into consideration exactly what Asmussen said, which is that a Travers win would make Kensei's career? There aren't any races left that would make Rachel Alexandra have a better career in terms of body of work (with the exception of super goals like the DWC or BCC).

That's the reason why Kensei is in the Travers, they want a GI for him and he belongs there. Period.

NT

That's a loaded question, you asking me if I trust Asmussen? I read what was said by he and Jackson. Obviously it makes sense to add a Gr. 1 to Kensai's resume, it also makes sense to have RA run in the Woodward. From a business decision it was right on, to give RA the road of less resistance it is better also. Yes we agree.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by CSC

Maybe it wasn't the greatest field of all time but it wasn't the worse either. As I pointed out many of these horses have had time off(injuries) and I also pointed out many have gone on to win Gr.1's. The someone had to win argument is an opinion I can only agree or disagree with, it was a blanket statement. From what I have read from Sightseek, she is a knowledgable poster. So the comment was a little dissapointing after I used some examples that last yrs Travers was not as bad as what is widely believed. Maybe I had hoped for a better explanation, we will just have to wait and see what Colonel John does the rest of the year, where I was wrong earlier in the year on his winning return on turf, hey even I can get it wrong now and then.

If you look at it from a historical perspective, yes they won "big" races, but look at the horses who won those races before them:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.p...ld=view&id=288

Tale of Ekati and Harlem Rocker would have barely been on the screen if they were up against some of those horses. Macho Again lost to Bullsbay - the same Bullsbay who is probably one of the worst Whitney winners ever. Court Vision has burned more of my money than any horse who ever ran so I won't go there. My point was, the quality of the horses running in last years triple crown races and up to this year as older horses is markedly poor. While they may have won this race and that race, it doesn't make them any more talented.

We forgot to mention the wonderful Mambo In Seattle in this conversation. Last year's Travers was exciting because it was the first in a long time where it wasn't either a super horse cantering to victory or a small field, but it wasn't that talented of a field.

Personally I don't like how Colonel John was campaigned from the Travers to his turf victory so seeing him win that last race was neat.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

If you look at it from a historical perspective, yes they won "big" races, but look at the horses who won those races before them:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.p...ld=view&id=288

Tale of Ekati and Harlem Rocker would have barely been on the screen if they were up against some of those horses. Macho Again lost to Bullsbay - the same Bullsbay who is probably one of the worst Whitney winners ever. Court Vision has burned more of my money than any horse who ever ran so I won't go there. My point was, the quality of the horses running in last years triple crown races and up to this year as older horses is markedly poor. While they may have won this race and that race, it doesn't make them any more talented.

We forgot to mention the wonderful Mambo In Seattle in this conversation. Last year's Travers was exciting because it was the first in a long time where it wasn't either a super horse cantering to victory or a small field, but it wasn't that talented of a field.

Personally I don't like how Colonel John was campaigned from the Travers to his turf victory so seeing him win that last race was neat.

Comparing eras...that's a wide open discussion open to intrepetation, there are alot of mediocre races nowadays, I said earlier the days of campaigning a Cigar like horse are almost extinct, the better horses retire and are sent off to the farm. Which is a reason why we get horses beating each other now, this is probably what we have to look fwd to, if a horse is so good there is little chance of seeing them past their 3 yr old season, if we are lucky some run as a 4 yr old like Curlin, and even with him I can't say he was in the class of Cigar.

Colonel John may be Pacific Classic bound, if he wins that then what? He will have beaten Rail Trip and Informed. It probably won't get him a huge amount of respect but that's racing today. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by CSC

Comparing eras...that's a wide open discussion open to intrepetation, there are alot of mediocre races nowadays, I said earlier the days of campaigning a Cigar like horse are almost extinct, the better horses retire and are sent off to the farm. Which is a reason why we get horses beating each other now, this is probably what we have to look fwd to, if a horse is so good there is little chance of seeing them past their 3 yr old season, if we are lucky some run as a 4 yr old like Curlin, and even with him I can't say he was in the class of Cigar.

Colonel John may be Pacific Classic bound, if he wins that then what? He will have beaten Rail Trip and Informed. It probably won't get him a huge amount of respect but that's racing today. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I'm afraid that Great Day of the Breeders Cup has drastically changed the face of of horse racing for the worst.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by CSC

Comparing eras...that's a wide open discussion open to intrepetation, there are alot of mediocre races nowadays, I said earlier the days of campaigning a Cigar like horse are almost extinct, the better horses retire and are sent off to the farm. Which is a reason why we get horses beating each other now, this is probably what we have to look fwd to, if a horse is so good there is little chance of seeing them past their 3 yr old season, if we are lucky some run as a 4 yr old like Curlin, and even with him I can't say he was in the class of Cigar.

Colonel John may be Pacific Classic bound, if he wins that then what? He will have beaten Rail Trip and Informed. It probably won't get him a huge amount of respect but that's racing today. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I'd agree that many of the good horses are not given a chance to show how good they really are due to abbreviated campaigns and early retirements (Bernardini, Hard Spun etc.), but I just think that the horses that ran last year have continued to show that they are more Grade 3 types winning Grade 1 races.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by boswd

Who's even going to go to this race? Asiatic Boy is now looking at The Pac Classic as to not lock horns with her. Bullsbay is not commited. What is this going to be a three or four horse race. Wooo Hoooo

Oye, first The Traver's loses the sport's two household names and now the The Woodward may come up really really lame.

You got to love this sport you can go from Penthouse to the Outhouse in a drop of a dime.

Bullsbay is now a go after they found no other good options. Cool Coal Man, It's a Bird, and Da Tara should be in as well. Maybe Smooth Air and/or Dry Martini? Past the Point? Tizway?

[TouchOfGrey]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Bullsbay is now a go after they found no other good options. Cool Coal Man, It's a Bird, and Da Tara should be in as well. Maybe Smooth Air and/or Dry Martini? Past the Point?

Macho Again Confirmed For Woodward

[boswd]

That's good news about Bullsbay, I still wish they threw her into the Travers' but I hope this doesn't turn out to be another Mother Goose.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey

Macho Again Confirmed For Woodward

I retract my statement

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey

Macho Again Confirmed For Woodward

Funny considering just six days earlier:

http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/...less-woodward/

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Funny considering just six days earlier:

http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/...less-woodward/

Law of Power #27a ENTER ACTION WITH BOLDNESS
the weasel who attempts to manipulate others with advice from self help books should therefore...


thats the way to manage em'


Macho Again is interesting because he can actually get 10 furlongs and has enough talent to win a race like the derby trial(trail) run @ 7f. whatever that even means...

I think he could have been maybe a legit Grade 2 horse with a supertrainer

[Bobby Fischer]

macho also leads the nation in corny headlines

"Macho Again Randy Savage Wins The Stephen Foster"
who even writes this stuff??


blood horse currently has a bad pun to announce the hemming and hawing of the connections:
"Macho, Again Confirmed For Woodward Try"
was the comma really necessary?

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=freddymo]Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.[/QUOTE]
Ashado was bought as a broodmare under far different conditions. Her value is immaterial because he wont sell her anyway.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Do you take into consideration exactly what Asmussen said, which is that a Travers win would make Kensei's career? There aren't any races left that would make Rachel Alexandra have a better career in terms of body of work (with the exception of super goals like the DWC or BCC).

That's the reason why Kensei is in the Travers, they want a GI for him and he belongs there. Period.

NT

While he said this it isnt actually true

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Law of Power #27a ENTER ACTION WITH BOLDNESS
the weasel who attempts to manipulate others with advice from self help books should therefore...


thats the way to manage em'


Macho Again is interesting because he can actually get 10 furlongs and has enough talent to win a race like the derby trial(trail) run @ 7f. whatever that even means...

I think he could have been maybe a legit Grade 2 horse with a supertrainer

He may have been Horse of the Year with an average trainer

[freddymo]

[quote=Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.[/QUOTE]
Ashado was bought as a broodmare under far different conditions. Her value is immaterial because he wont sell her anyway.

Are you suggesting that 10 mil for a St B in foal to Indy (300k maybe?) isn't relative to a M'doro world class racing filly..What am I missing indy on top? lol

I forgot Curlin is in her future? Ok save reality for 1 second give me a fig she would sell for at Keeneland Mixed 10 in foal to Indy... 15 mil?

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you suggesting that 10 mil for a St B in foal to Indy (300k maybe?) isn't relative to a M'doro world class racing filly..What am I missing indy on top? lol

I forgot Curlin is in her future? Ok save reality for 1 second give me a fig she would sell for at Keeneland Mixed 10 in foal to Indy... 15 mil?

Who would she sell to? There is no market at that level. Maybe in theory she is worth more but the reality is that only one guy plays at that level and he apparently wasnt interested at 8 million. She cant earn the money on the track, she cant collect any stud fees.

[freddymo]

[quote=Cannon Shell][quote=freddymo]
Who would she sell to? There is no market at that level. Maybe in theory she is worth more but the reality is that only one guy plays at that level and he apparently wasnt interested at 8 million. She cant earn the money on the track, she cant collect any stud fees.

I understand the market is depressed.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

While he said this it isnt actually true

It makes him worth significantly more than he is now though, wouldn't you say?

NT