Good letter

[Smooth Operator]

Lol ... gramps won't be able to get his knee replaced, eh, wiphan?




Con fear machine hitting on all cylinders now...

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Lol ... gramps won't be able to get his knee replaced, eh, wiphan?




Con fear machine hitting on all cylinders now...

Name me one government run business that would survive in the private sector as a sucessfull profitable business? Public schools, Post office, do I need to continue?

[Riot]

I can not believe you actually believe this. I have heard Obama say that you won't have to give up your current plan if you don't want to so many times, but what he is not telling you is your plan as it exists today won't exist if this healthcare reform bill is passed. No company is going to continue to offer health insurance to their employees because it will be cheaper to go on the government plan.

I can't believe you actually believe one-sixth of the economy and the largest private companies in the world will somehow magically disappear

No, the 85% of people insured today by their current private health plans will still be there. The government doesn't want to insure them. That is not in any of the reform bills now. We will be insured by our private plans. Nothing will change for us. Premiums may decrease. What will change is that the insurance company won't be able to drop their clients needlessly, nor exclude them for preexisting condtions.

BTW, not everybody is ELIGIBLE for the government plan (under both current House bill provisions). Private insurance isn't going anywhere.

Who will be insured are the currently uninsured. That's estimated to be 36 million out of 46 million uninsured, out of 330 billion in our country. Those whose big private insurance companies have dumped them because they made a claim (yes, that happens all the time, it's how insurance companies make money - by not paying claims). Young people that are currently uninsured will be encouraged to be insured and brought into the pools (decreasing costs for everyone). YOU will not be prevented from getting insurance because you have a pre-existing condition (happens all the time). YOU won't have to worry about losing your health insurance if you change jobs (happens all the time, few can afford COBRA)

Half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by people bankrupted due to paying for medical bills - and the majority of these people are insured by private insurance companies. That will end. That is great for the economy.

By being employed and paying for my health care plan I am able to choose what and how I want to handle and what I can afford as far my medical needs go.

Your insurance plan has a list of doctors in their plan, and a list of hospitals (providers) in their plan, and the insurance company determines what is paid out for what conditions.

Do you really think that if I am 70 yrs old and in not great health (let's say I have had numerous heart attacks) that if I am on the government's plan that they will pay for my knee to be replaced?

They do now all the time. It's called "Medicare".

What "government plan" are you talking about? There is no single payer (the government paying for everything) in any of the reform bills. There is no provision for someone from the government to get involved in your health care.

The government can't even compete with UPS or Fedex with something as simple as delivering overnight packages and the post office is losing millions of dollars and would be bankrupt if it was a private business and you think it is a good idea for them to be in charge of healthcare?

??? The government isn't going to be "in charge of healthcare"? What provisions in the house bills or senate bill are you specifically are you talking about?

BTW, the government does very well, providing excellent comprehensive treatment at very lost cost (less than 5% of Medicare/Medicade budget goes to administrative costs) to Medicare, Medicad and Veterans right now.

[/quote]If they can't compete with the private businesses in something so simple what makes you think they can do so with healthcare?[/quote]

The Post Office is far from the disaster you say it is. They compete very well. You put a stamp on a letter, they pick it up, and in 3-7 days it's exactly where you wrote on the envelope it should go.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

I can't believe you actually believe one-sixth of the economy and the larges

BTW, not everybody is ELIGIBLE for the government plan (under both current House bill provisions). Private insurance isn't going anywhere.



Who will be insured are the currently uninsured. That's estimated to be 36 million out of 46 million uninsured, out of 330 billion in our country. Those whose big private insurance companies have dumped them because they made a claim (yes, that happens all the time, it's how insurance companies make money - by not paying claims). Young people that are currently uninsured will be encouraged to be insured and brought into the pools (decreasing costs for everyone). YOU will not be prevented from getting insurance because you have a pre-existing condition (happens all the time). YOU won't have to worry about losing your health insurance if you change jobs (happens all the time, few can afford COBRA)


Who is going to pay for this then? We are just going to cover all the people that currently aren't insured with a government program and the health insurance costs are going to go down. I am not sure where you live, but in my book that is never never land.

Half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by people bankrupted due to paying for medical bills - and the majority of these people are insured by private insurance companies. That will end. That is great for the economy.

Great for the economy? Where is the $ coming from to pay for this?

Your insurance plan has a list of doctors in their plan, and a list of hospitals (providers) in their plan, and the insurance company determines what is paid out for what conditions.



They do now all the time. It's called "Medicare".

What "government plan" are you talking about? There is no single payer (the government paying for everything) in any of the reform bills. There is no provision for someone from the government to get involved in your health care.

If you believe what the government is telling you and that they have no hidden agenda or direction where they are going to take this then you are correct, but you aren't really that naive are you?


??? The government isn't going to be "in charge of healthcare"? What provisions in the house bills or senate bill are you specifically are you talking about?

BTW, the government does very well, providing excellent comprehensive treatment at very lost cost (less than 5% of Medicare/Medicade budget goes to administrative costs) to Medicare, Medicad and Veterans right now.

Really? Have you dealt with Medicare before? They do not cover a lot of things and if you have major medical problems you should have supplemental coverage to cover what medicare doesn't cover.

If they can't compete with the private businesses in something so simple what makes you think they can do so with healthcare?[/quote]

The Post Office is far from the disaster you say it is. They compete very well. You put a stamp on a letter, they pick it up, and in 3-7 days it's exactly where you wrote on the envelope it should go.[/quote]

Really? Do you know how large the deficit for the post office is? If it where a private business they would have filed bankruptcy years ago. The deficit is in the billions. Why do you think they are talking about mail going to 5 days a week? Why do they contract their priority mail packages with Fedex and UPS? I am sure it is because they are so efficient and cost effective at providing their services

[wiphan]

Here is an article on the post office

http://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/ca6675207.html

Yeah the post office is in great shape...

So is Medicare and the VA, wiphan.

Why bother with this dumb c.unt?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

I can't believe you actually believe one-sixth of the economy and the largest private companies in the world will somehow magically disappear

No, the 85% of people insured today by their current private health plans will still be there. The government doesn't want to insure them. That is not in any of the reform bills now. We will be insured by our private plans. Nothing will change for us. Premiums may decrease. What will change is that the insurance company won't be able to drop their clients needlessly, nor exclude them for preexisting condtions.

BTW, not everybody is ELIGIBLE for the government plan (under both current House bill provisions). Private insurance isn't going anywhere.

Who will be insured are the currently uninsured. That's estimated to be 36 million out of 46 million uninsured, out of 330 billion in our country. Those whose big private insurance companies have dumped them because they made a claim (yes, that happens all the time, it's how insurance companies make money - by not paying claims). Young people that are currently uninsured will be encouraged to be insured and brought into the pools (decreasing costs for everyone). YOU will not be prevented from getting insurance because you have a pre-existing condition (happens all the time). YOU won't have to worry about losing your health insurance if you change jobs (happens all the time, few can afford COBRA)

Half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by people bankrupted due to paying for medical bills - and the majority of these people are insured by private insurance companies. That will end. That is great for the economy.



Your insurance plan has a list of doctors in their plan, and a list of hospitals (providers) in their plan, and the insurance company determines what is paid out for what conditions.



They do now all the time. It's called "Medicare".

What "government plan" are you talking about? There is no single payer (the government paying for everything) in any of the reform bills. There is no provision for someone from the government to get involved in your health care.



??? The government isn't going to be "in charge of healthcare"? What provisions in the house bills or senate bill are you specifically are you talking about?

BTW, the government does very well, providing excellent comprehensive treatment at very lost cost (less than 5% of Medicare/Medicade budget goes to administrative costs) to Medicare, Medicad and Veterans right now.

If they can't compete with the private businesses in something so simple what makes you think they can do so with healthcare?[/quote]

The Post Office is far from the disaster you say it is. They compete very well. You put a stamp on a letter, they pick it up, and in 3-7 days it's exactly where you wrote on the envelope it should go.[/quote]



lol
the post office would have gone tits up years ago if it wasn't a federal program. how far in the hole are they now? 3-7 days...i sent a check 'overnight' thru the post office, it took almost a week to get there.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Lol ... gramps won't be able to get his knee replaced, eh, wiphan?
Con fear machine hitting on all cylinders now...

Did you miss my story? My private, ultra-good bells-and-whistles Humana plan (for which I paid over $400 a month for, privately, as I am self-employed) approved and qualified me to have a knee replacement (both the doctors office and the hospital got approval, in writing, that the insurance company would pay, which is usual for any hospital admittance) - then a few months later, they decided they were not paying.

They gave me two choices: I could sign off and agree they wouldn't pay for what they already agreed to, and what was covered under my plan; or, if I didn't agree, the blackmail to that was they would cancel my entire policy from the beginning, and refund all my premiums minus what they paid out already on other conditions.

This is entirely legal for you to sign a contract and your insurance company to be able to renege at any time, with you having no recourse. Read your insurance contract. The Kentucky Insurance Commission said, "Nothing we can do".

I am currently sueing them. I will be lucky to get half of it paid, and it will take years. Insurance companies take the least expensive road.

The above is what private insurance companies do to keep profitable. When you have a large claim, they will try anything to put the policy in recission.

And the Healthcare reform act will END the above practice.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Riot

Did you miss my story? My private, ultra-good bells-and-whistles Humana plan (for which I paid over $400 a month for, privately, as I am self-employed) approved and qualified me to have a knee replacement (both the doctors office and the hospital got approval, in writing, that the insurance company would pay, which is usual for any hospital admittance) - then a few months later, they decided they were not paying.

They gave me two choices: I could sign off and agree they wouldn't pay for what they already agreed to, and what was covered under my plan; or, if I didn't agree, the blackmail to that was they would cancel my entire policy from the beginning, and refund all my premiums minus what they paid out already on other conditions.

This is entirely legal for you to sign a contract and your insurance company to be able to renege at any time, with you having no recourse. Read your insurance contract. The Kentucky Insurance Commission said, "Nothing we can do".

I am currently sueing them. I will be lucky to get half of it paid, and it will take years. Insurance companies take the least expensive road.

The above is what private insurance companies do to keep profitable. When you have a large claim, they will try anything to put the policy in recission.

And the Healthcare reform act will END the above practice.

Shocking ... just SHOCKING



Thought we had "the best health care system in the world" cuz it's private?????

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Shocking ... just SHOCKING



Thought we had "the best health care system in the world" cuz it's private?????

I thought Canada did?

http://www.vancouversun.com/story_pr...878506&sponsor

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I thought Canada did?

http://www.vancouversun.com/story_pr...878506&sponsor

Not according to this one, dellinger:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Cont...can-Healt.aspx



Canada came in fifth ... and the U.S. in sixth ... out of six countries............................

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Shocking ... just SHOCKING

Thought we had "the best health care system in the world" cuz it's private?????

Um ... we do not have the "best healthcare in the world" by anyone's public ranking. We do have the "most expensive" healthcare in the world.

World Health Org ranked us 37th (France and Italy first)

Commonwealth Fund May 2009 ranked the United States last or next-to-last compared with five other nations — Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and the United Kingdom — on most measures of performance, including quality of care and access to it.

Insurance coverage: All other major industrialized nations provide universal health coverage, and most of them have comprehensive benefit packages with no cost-sharing by the patients. The United States, to its shame, has some 45 million people without health insurance and many more millions who have poor coverage.

Access. Citizens abroad often face long waits before they can get to see a specialist or undergo elective surgery. Americans typically get prompter attention, although Germany does better. The real barriers here are the costs facing low-income people without insurance or with skimpy coverage.

But even Americans with above-average incomes find it more difficult than their counterparts abroad to get care on nights or weekends without going to an emergency room, and many report having to wait six days or more for an appointment with their own doctors.

Fairness. The United States ranks dead last on almost all measures of equity because we have the greatest disparity in the quality of care given to richer and poorer citizens. Americans with below-average incomes are much less likely than their counterparts in other industrialized nations to see a doctor when sick, to fill prescriptions or to get needed tests and follow-up care.

Healthy lives. We have known for years that America has a high infant mortality rate, so it is no surprise that we rank last among 23 nations by that yardstick. But we rank near the bottom in healthy life expectancy at age 60, and 15th among 19 countries in deaths from a wide range of illnesses that would not have been fatal if treated with timely and effective care. The good news is that we have done a better job than other industrialized nations in reducing smoking. The bad news is that our obesity epidemic is the worst in the world.

Quality. In a comparison with five other countries, the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States first in providing the “right care” for a given condition as defined by standard clinical guidelines and gave it especially high marks for preventive care, like Pap smears and mammograms to detect early-stage cancers, and blood tests and cholesterol checks for hypertensive patients. But we scored poorly in coordinating the care of chronically ill patients, in protecting the safety of patients, and in meeting their needs and preferences, which drove our overall quality rating down to last place. American doctors and hospitals kill patients through surgical and medical mistakes more often than their counterparts in other industrialized nations.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Riot

Um ... we do not have the "best healthcare in the world" by anyone's public ranking. We do have the "most expensive" healthcare in the world.

Lol ... was being sarcastic, Riot.


Familiar with both the WHO and CF reports



Both pretty embarrassing for the current U.S. system...

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Lol ... was being sarcastic, Riot.


Familiar with both the WHO and CF reports



Both pretty embarrassing for the current U.S. system...

yea and WHO has no agenda. When you can be best in diagnosis and worst in the overall ranking the report is obviously flawed. You'll know when we are the worst. It will be when the rich from here are flying to foreign lands for care and Kings and Health Ministry heads aren't coming here.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

yea and WHO has no agenda. When you can be best in diagnosis and worst in the overall ranking the report is obviously flawed. You'll know when we are the worst. It will be when the rich from here are flying to foreign lands for care and Kings and Health Ministry heads aren't coming here.

That doesn't really prove anything. Nobody has ever doubted that the absolute cream of the crop medical care is in the United States. The problem is that not everyone has access to that.

But I'm hard-pressed to think that the WHO reports are really interested in measuring the healthcare system based on what a multi-millionaire/King/Health Minister can buy. The "system" is more than whether rich people can get the best health care.

If that's what we're debating here, then congratulations you win! The rich get great health care in the United States!!!!!!

And this, Dell, is the age-old gap between the two very different ways that we (meaning left and right -- and you and me, I guess -- at this point in time) view the world, and they're completely irreconcilable. You on the right care that you are taken care of and once that's done, everyone else can go f*ck themselves because you've already got yours and that's all that matters. We on the left think that there is something to the idea that everyone gets taken care of, and that it's not all about us as individuals being well-off because the better off we are as a group, the better off we are as individuals.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

yea and WHO has no agenda. When you can be best in diagnosis and worst in the overall ranking the report is obviously flawed. You'll know when we are the worst. It will be when the rich from here are flying to foreign lands for care and Kings and Health Ministry heads aren't coming here.

LOL ... high-pitch Hannity uses that moronic argument all the time too.



Not like our private insurance system has set the bar real high ... I mean, dead last overall in that Commonwealth Fund report ... and a laughable 37th-place finish in the WHO report.


What an EMBARRASSMENT for the world's most powerful economy...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Lol ... was being sarcastic, Riot.


Familiar with both the WHO and CF reports



Both pretty embarrassing for the current U.S. system...

Whoosed over my head, sorry

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Lol ... gramps won't be able to get his knee replaced, eh, wiphan?

Con fear machine hitting on all cylinders now...

I do like to be sure I read Fox News daily. It's amazing: when 10 other news agencies are talking about one big story, when that is all over cable news - Fox News is often completely ignoring it.

Like the President's healthcare town halls, which were about an hour apiece - Fox News just declined to televise them, or relay much of what was included afterwards. Rupert Murdoch has always said he's in the entertainment business, not the news business. Glenn Beck has lost another 8 advertisers this past weekend (in addition to the previous five) for his calling the President a racist who hates white people a couple weeks ago. But I doubt Rupert will remove him, he incites and angers his two million viewers.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

You're f.ucking retarded.

A few health insurers have been absolutely mauled by the government with MIPPA.

Just shut the f.uck up, you ponderous c.unt.

Someday, when you grow up, maybe you'll learn another adjective, other than the only two you know how to use now.

Originally Posted by Riot

Someday, when you grow up, maybe you'll learn another adjective, other than the only two you know how to use now.

You're the dumbest b.itch on the internet. I'll take anything negative you say as a compliment.