For GR and KYRose

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Hey, Rupert!

I know EXACTLY what this is referencing, so I'm happy to shed a little light-- the Republicans in Congress, who have been objecting to raising the minimum wage for several years, put in a bill to raise it-- in the same bill pushing to repeal the estate tax. The estate tax, of course, affects the estates of only the super super rich (top 2 percent) and ending it would really affect the gov't revenue, and eventually, support programs for people who don't have multimillion dollar estates. What the Dems are objecting to is not raising the minimum wage, but repealing the estate tax. But since the Republicans were crafty and put them in the same bill, by voting down the one they vote down the other. So, that's why Frist claims the Dems don't want the minimum wage raised. It's not that. It's that they don't want the estate tax repealed. They're making a hard decision-- voting down the immediate benefit of the working poor so as not to hurt them farther down the road, with the loss of the estate tax income. And I think they're hoping they can regain Congress soon, and get it raised without having to give dead rich guys a handout, too. They're in a tough position though. Hope they do the right thing.

As angry as this move by the Republicans makes me (putting the wage raise in the same bill as the estate tax repeal) I have to admire their craftiness-- they really know how to play the game to make the opposing side look like the bad guys, because they figure most people won't take time to explore the full story. Good for you for not taking it at face value.

Here's an interesting essay on the estate tax.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060515&s=trb051506

DTS, I'll read the article in a few days. This is the first I've even been on DT today-- very busy at work! Miss you all much, my favorite libbers, cons, and swingers.

I figured that it was a half-truth. I'm glad you clarified it for me. I hate that when they tell half-truths. I don't care what party the person is in. It's an insult to the viewer when these politicians tell half-truths.

By the way, I do think they need to make major changes to the estate-tax. If you live in a place like Beverly Hills where real-estate is expensive, and average house that is 4000 square feet is worth over $2 million. If your motherd died and left you the house, you would probably be forced to sell the house just to pay the estate-tax on the house. You'd probably owe the government $800,000. That's not fair. I don't think you should owe the government anything in that case. I don't know if they should totally get rid of the estate tax, but I think they need to raise the amount that you can inherit without paying taxes. I think the first $5 million or so should be tax-free.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I figured that it was a half-truth. I'm glad you clarified it for me. I hate that when they tell half-truths. I don't care what party the person is in. It's an insult to the viewer when these politicians tell half-truths.

By the way, I do think they need to make major changes to the estate-tax. If you live in a place like Beverly Hills where real-estate is expensive, and average house that is 4000 square feet is worth over $2 million. If your motherd died and left you the house, you would probably be forced to sell the house just to pay the estate-tax on the house. You'd probably owe the government $800,000. That's not fair. I don't think you should owe the government anything in that case. I don't know if they should totally get rid of the estate tax, but I think they need to raise the amount that you can inherit without paying taxes. I think the first $5 million or so should be tax-free.

Rup, heck with Beverly Hills... say you are a farming family, owning quite a bit of farm land, which, although used for ag, has sky rocketed in value... Estate tax really hurts then.

Ez

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by ezrabrooks

Rup, heck with Beverly Hills... say you are a farming family, owning quite a bit of farm land, which, although used for ag, has sky rocketed in value... Estate tax really hurts then.

Ez

Ez,
This thread has taken a different direction from where it started.
But since we're here, all I can say is that I agree with you about the plight of the "farm family"...or "family farm", however you say it.
Here in NY, so many dairy farms that have been in families for generations have gone out. It is so tragic to see my friends' tears when the auction comes and their herds are loaded on trailers. The stock goes to either another farm, if it has breeding, or to slaughter.
These animals were tended and loved each and every day of their lives.
It seems so sad to me, the "mom and pop" farms selling out because they can't possibly compete with the larger argi-biz operations a few states away.
I guess it comes down to markets and progress.
The same thing has happened when "big box" marketers come along and main street's little stores become vacant when folks go just outside of town to make their purchases. The shopping malls occupy what once was a corn field.
The empty farms remain, as do the empty stores. All the effort over all the years is gone in an anguished moment. Gavel down.
Then the kids try to hang on to whatever value remains. The estate tax takes away the little that is left.
Times have changed. The fields are subdivided for second home development by shrewd people that never knew what it was like to help that little heifer give birth to her first calf at 3 AM on a snowy night.
Yup, times have changed.
DTS

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Ez,
This thread has taken a different direction from where it started.
But since we're here, all I can say is that I agree with you about the plight of the "farm family"...or "family farm", however you say it.
Here in NY, so many dairy farms that have been in families for generations have gone out. It is so tragic to see my friends' tears when the auction comes and their herds are loaded on trailers. The stock goes to either another farm, if it has breeding, or to slaughter.
These animals were tended and loved each and every day of their lives.
It seems so sad to me, the "mom and pop" farms selling out because they can't possibly compete with the larger argi-biz operations a few states away.
I guess it comes down to markets and progress.
The same thing has happened when "big box" marketers come along and main street's little stores become vacant when folks go just outside of town to make their purchases. The shopping malls occupy what once was a corn field.
The empty farms remain, as do the empty stores. All the effort over all the years is gone in an anguished moment. Gavel down.
Then the kids try to hang on to whatever value remains. The estate tax takes away the little that is left.
Times have changed. The fields are subdivided for second home development by shrewd people that never knew what it was like to help that little heifer give birth to her first calf at 3 AM on a snowy night.
Yup, times have changed.
DTS

Wayne, that was touching. It seriously was... and it is a shame that we have come to this. I am one of a small group of consumers who will actually spend the extra $$ on buying from a family owned farm or store. The problem is that people want to cut corners anyway they can and because of this, the smaller family owned businesses just can't keep their heads above water. It's sad...

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Wayne, that was touching. It seriously was... and it is a shame that we have come to this. I am one of a small group of consumers who will actually spend the extra $$ on buying from a family owned farm or store. The problem is that people want to cut corners anyway they can and because of this, the smaller family owned businesses just can't keep their heads above water. It's sad...

Cajun,
Thanks.
I also spend a bit more to support the little guys.
To me, it's just much nicer to go to them, have a chat, and walk away with the stuff that I went there for in the first place. These kinds of hard working people are my friends.
They can't afford advertising, nor can they buy goods by the boxcar or shipping container...so they can't discount because they've bought bulk.
But I'll keep giving them my business, just so they don't drown.
It's "small town America" to me...and I won't let it go.
DTS

[GenuineRisk]

Three cheers to DTS and Cajun for supporting the little guy! I like to buy local when I can, too. Not only is it good for small farmers, but it's also good for the environment because family farms are often vital habitats for all kinds of threatened and vulnerable species of wildlife.

I wanted to post a link to some myths/facts about the estate tax. As of 1998, there had never been a reported instance of a farm being lost to the estate tax. According to this link, only 3 in every 10,000 farms make up the bulk of an estate. The figure is similar for small businesses-- oh, just read the link; they put it better than I do.

http://www.faireconomy.org/estatetax/ETMythsFacts.html

I think the "People will lose their farms! Lose their businesses if we don't repeal it!" is scare tactics by the Republicans. FYI, Rupert, the Dems did try this year to raise the exemption to 3.5 million an individual and 7 million a couple and the Repubs shot it down because they want to abolish the tax entirely, not modify it. Here's a Washington Post article on that. It's actually pretty hard on the Dems for not being able to get people to understand that the estate tax is not a bad thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...053001182.html

Later, Gators! (and Cajungators) Danzig, I'm really going to the movies now. I swear it...

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Three cheers to DTS and Cajun for supporting the little guy! I like to buy local when I can, too. Not only is it good for small farmers, but it's also good for the environment because family farms are often vital habitats for all kinds of threatened and vulnerable species of wildlife.

I wanted to post a link to some myths/facts about the estate tax. As of 1998, there had never been a reported instance of a farm being lost to the estate tax. According to this link, only 3 in every 10,000 farms make up the bulk of an estate. The figure is similar for small businesses-- oh, just read the link; they put it better than I do.

http://www.faireconomy.org/estatetax/ETMythsFacts.html

I think the "People will lose their farms! Lose their businesses if we don't repeal it!" is scare tactics by the Republicans. FYI, Rupert, the Dems did try this year to raise the exemption to 3.5 million an individual and 7 million a couple and the Repubs shot it down because they want to abolish the tax entirely, not modify it. Here's a Washington Post article on that. It's actually pretty hard on the Dems for not being able to get people to understand that the estate tax is not a bad thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...053001182.html

Later, Gators! (and Cajungators) Danzig, I'm really going to the movies now. I swear it...

Those who post lies...are liars. I know personally of one farm family that had to liquidate to pay death taxes.. My universe is pretty small..so I just know what I see.

Ez

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Three cheers to DTS and Cajun for supporting the little guy! I like to buy local when I can, too. Not only is it good for small farmers, but it's also good for the environment because family farms are often vital habitats for all kinds of threatened and vulnerable species of wildlife.

I wanted to post a link to some myths/facts about the estate tax. As of 1998, there had never been a reported instance of a farm being lost to the estate tax. According to this link, only 3 in every 10,000 farms make up the bulk of an estate. The figure is similar for small businesses-- oh, just read the link; they put it better than I do.

http://www.faireconomy.org/estatetax/ETMythsFacts.html

I think the "People will lose their farms! Lose their businesses if we don't repeal it!" is scare tactics by the Republicans. FYI, Rupert, the Dems did try this year to raise the exemption to 3.5 million an individual and 7 million a couple and the Repubs shot it down because they want to abolish the tax entirely, not modify it. Here's a Washington Post article on that. It's actually pretty hard on the Dems for not being able to get people to understand that the estate tax is not a bad thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...053001182.html

Later, Gators! (and Cajungators) Danzig, I'm really going to the movies now. I swear it...

gotta go too! ah, high school football. didn't go to it when i was in school, and don't enjoy it now.


now, college and pro...that's some good stuff!

see everyone later. and remember, not hitting below the belt.