Mine that Bird

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by kgar311

I think everything comes together for him in this race. The pace, the distance, the track. Will he ever win another major stake? I doubt it but I sure like him in this spot. Is he even the best horse in the race, my answer is no to that too. I think Quality Road is but asking him to go a mile and a quarter at this point off the injury is too much. And I sure would be licking my chops at 5-1.

How are you so sure the pace is going to work out for him? The pace was very fast in the WV Derby and that didn't seem to work out.

I'm not saying he'd be a bad play at 5-1 or so but I am concerned that the wheels are going to come off soon. They gave him very little time to "be a horse" after the Belmont and he sure did look tired in the final quarter at Mountaineer. That was his sixth workout yesterday along with a race in the last seven weeks. The first of those workouts also came only 21 days after the Belmont.

NT

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

How are you so sure the pace is going to work out for him? The pace was very fast in the WV Derby and that didn't seem to work out.

I'm not saying he'd be a bad play at 5-1 or so but I am concerned that the wheels are going to come off soon. They gave him very little time to "be a horse" after the Belmont and he sure did look tired in the final quarter at Mountaineer. That was his sixth workout yesterday along with a race in the last seven weeks. The first of those workouts also came only 21 days after the Belmont.

NT

Im envisioning a Concern type of scenario. 10-15 lengths out by the clubhouse turn and uncorking a huge rally late, only MTB is not coming after Holy Bull. He didnt run his "type" of race in the WV Derby or the Belmont for that matter. Poor rides by both jockey's in both of those races. I think coming in here the connection should have the correct gameplan set in stone and if follow should result in a victory.

[CSC]

I don't know why people are so interested in Mine That Bird, he's probably no better than the 5th best 3 yr old colt at the moment. Summer Bird, Munnings, Quality Rd. are better, the best 3 yr old colt is currently not running at the moment and that is The Pampelmousse, surely there are more exciting prospects.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Im envisioning a Concern type of scenario. 10-15 lengths out by the clubhouse turn and uncorking a huge rally late, only MTB is not coming after Holy Bull. He didnt run his "type" of race in the WV Derby or the Belmont for that matter. Poor rides by both jockey's in both of those races. I think coming in here the connection should have the correct gameplan set in stone and if follow should result in a victory.

3 races before preakness Jockey rode him wrong, loses to sunland horses

Derby, perfect trip on a sloppy track and he beats the great Musket Man and Pioneer of the nile.

Preakness, again its the jockey who cost him losing with a perfect setup and edging out Musket Man, who aint no quality road.

Belmont, has the lead at the top of the stretch and wilts, again its the jockey

WV, Gets a perfect trip chasing a collapsing horse and comes home in 14 2/5ths and loses but its that dang jockey again.

See a pattern here?

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

3 races before preakness Jockey rode him wrong, loses to sunland horses

Derby, perfect trip on a sloppy track and he beats the great Musket Man and Pioneer of the nile.

Preakness, again its the jockey who cost him losing with a perfect setup and edging out Musket Man, who aint no quality road.

Belmont, has the lead at the top of the stretch and wilts, again its the jockey

WV, Gets a perfect trip chasing a collapsing horse and comes home in 14 2/5ths and loses but its that dang jockey again.

See a pattern here?

That's why I said I think everything comes together for him this race. No more excuses here. He gets the trip, the ride and the setup and if he doesnt win well then I guess I was wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. If he wins I walk out of the track with fat pockets.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by kgar311

That's why I said I think everything comes together for him this race. No more excuses here. He gets the trip, the ride and the setup and if he doesnt win well then I guess I was wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. If he wins I walk out of the track with fat pockets.

I would want around 10/1 on that bet though, about the right chance of it happening, maybe 12/1 or so.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by kgar311

That's why I said I think everything comes together for him this race. No more excuses here. He gets the trip, the ride and the setup and if he doesnt win well then I guess I was wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. If he wins I walk out of the track with fat pockets.

Usually when a horse needs a perfect trip, a perfectly timed ride, the perfect pace scenario, the perfect track...the perfect stars alignment, the perfect whatever....turns out to be not so perfect afterall. He's an okay to good horse, we determined that months ago his derby was not a fluke, actually I determined that the night after the derby but some are quicker than others....usually good horses are one's that overcome imperfect pace and trip scenarios, the fact that he can't really speaks volumes of his true abilty.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by CSC

Usually when a horse needs a perfect trip, a perfectly timed ride, the perfect pace scenario, the perfect track...the perfect stars alignment, the perfect whatever....turns out to be not so perfect afterall. He's an okay to good horse, we determined that months ago his derby was not a fluke, actually I determined that the night after the derby but some are quicker than others....usually good horses are one's that overcome imperfect pace and trip scenarios, the fact that he can't really speaks volumes of his true abilty.

Correct, but i am betting on the stars aligning for this horse. I think they get it right here

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Correct, but i am betting on the stars aligning for this horse. I think they get it right here

maybe so, good luck....but arnt there much better investments at 5/1 with a lot less "aligning" needed?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Correct, but i am betting on the stars aligning for this horse. I think they get it right here

For what it's worth I think he will like Saratoga more than Mountaineer, I'm just not sure he will be a fair price but who knows we've seen some strange prices at the Spa these 1st 2 weeks, however I won't be banging the door down to bet him. Goodluck if you you have a strong opinion about him.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

3 races before preakness Jockey rode him wrong, loses to sunland horses

Derby, perfect trip on a sloppy track and he beats the great Musket Man and Pioneer of the nile.

Preakness, again its the jockey who cost him losing with a perfect setup and edging out Musket Man, who aint no quality road.

Belmont, has the lead at the top of the stretch and wilts, again its the jockey

WV, Gets a perfect trip chasing a collapsing horse and comes home in 14 2/5ths and loses but its that dang jockey again.

See a pattern here?

He is a decent horse, nothing less, nothing more. The trip at Mountaineer was not really what I would call an ideal trip. He moved WAY too soon.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

He is a decent horse, nothing less, nothing more. The trip at Mountaineer was not really what I would call an ideal trip. He moved WAY too soon.

I agree on decent, decent for a grade 1 winning three year old

a "good" horse never loses the belmont or WV race though with bad horses collapsing in front of him.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I agree on decent, decent for a grade 1 winning three year old

a "good" horse never loses the belmont or WV race though with bad horses collapsing in front of him.

Who collapsed in front of him in the Belmont? That race (with that ride) cannot be picked out as one that proves MTB is not a good horse.

NT

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Who collapsed in front of him in the Belmont? That race (with that ride) cannot be picked out as one that proves MTB is not a good horse.

NT

ok lets take the borderline derby at sunland (or whatever it was called)

[Thunder Gulch]

I don't care if Smith move too early or not. The fact is there was plenty of pace to run at and he couldn't get past Big Drama who was staggering home in 14.5.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I don't care if Smith move too early or not. The fact is there was plenty of pace to run at and he couldn't get past Big Drama who was staggering home in 14.5.

i usually put a line through good horses that race at tracks like sunland and especially mountaineer. i do it for keenland POLY now too since it doesn't equate to true dirt form. have you ever seen how mountaineer is configured? they would of been better off at monmouth. that horse had to move early, speed wins everthing at that strip! in my opinion MTB has had two bad rides in a row by two questionable jockeys. borel is great at CD, in ny (other major meets)hes never been much. smith probably felt like he had to be up there, to have any chance! that horse is good. who else came within a closing length of rachel? he needs the proper ride, hes a HARD horse to ride. you get one move at the right time or hes just a board hitter. any one that does not think this horse is good, is nuts. times at that track mean NOTHING. THE ONLY TIME THE TIME MATTERS FOR MTB IS THE FINAL QUARTER IF HES RESERVED FIRST MILE AND AN EIGHTH. HE'LL NEVER WIN RUSHING UP THERE EARLY ON!

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

He is a decent horse, nothing less, nothing more. The trip at Mountaineer was not really what I would call an ideal trip. He moved WAY too soon.

You're an ENIGMA. If the MNR trip is so obviously premature, how could you also not notice the premature move in the BEL?

I think the horse didn't handle the track last race. He's climbing and skipping (switching leads) in the run to the 1st turn like I've never seen him do before (I actually watched all his WO races.)

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

How are you so sure the pace is going to work out for him? The pace was very fast in the WV Derby and that didn't seem to work out.

Give this horse Flatbold's run in the Jim Dandy and see what happens.

QR tackles 1 1/4 for the 1st time and Kensei is looking for another speed favoring setup. Odds of the Jim Dandy AND the Travers going 1-2 (or 2-1) around the track are good, aren't they?



Thanks to DrugS for pointing out that its the horse (not the jocks) making all those premature moves.