The sad cost of war

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

What do you think would have happened to us, to the world, if banks were allowed to simply fail, if the major financial institutions didn't receive loans, if there was no stimulus package, etc? If none of the other industrialized countries in the world did the same as we did?

As distastful as it is to increase the deficit, it's the only way out of a recession, the only way to prevent a depression. Look at history. Regarding "hampering attempts at recovery", the biggest thing that does that is no cash flow. Yes, I know we are printing it. I am old enough to remember when the gold standard was removed.

increasing the deficit isn't the answer-why increase one of the things that is causing our problems?? adding healthcare that we can ill afford right now isn't either. proper actions by the govt would be helpful-this mess we've witnessed since january is far from that.
fdr removed the gold standard- i didn't know you were that old!!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

increasing the deficit isn't the answer-why increase one of the things that is causing our problems?? adding healthcare that we can ill afford right now isn't either. proper actions by the govt would be helpful-this mess we've witnessed since january is far from that.
fdr removed the gold standard- i didn't know you were that old!!

Spending is, unfortunately, the answer to a recession or a depression. Don't forget the last time - people were essentially being paid to dig a hole, fill it up, dig another hole. If the government hadn't done anything (and this has been coming for some time, remember the previous administration did have a "hands off" policy pretty much for the economy, thus it worsened ... ), double the jobless numbers (Detroit automaker disaster, plus all the smaller manufacturing industries associated with that, that make parts) and add many of them in as homeless or starving. Ohio would probably be under marshall law right now. It would be very, very ugly.

Adding healthcare for the uninsured (40 million people max out of 300 million) - that's not a very expensive thing. Seriously - a trillion over 10 years, less than 1% of our budget.

I am really, really old But what I was talking about was Nixon and gold. I vaguely remember the horror when Lyndon Johnson implemented Medicare. And healthcare - I wish Bush had done it. That was something he had talked about. He got distracted by wars.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Spending is, unfortunately, the answer to a recession or a depression. Don't forget the last time - people were essentially being paid to dig a hole, fill it up, dig another hole. If the government hadn't done anything (and this has been coming for some time, remember the previous administration did have a "hands off" policy pretty much for the economy, thus it worsened ... ), double the jobless numbers (Detroit automaker disaster, plus all the smaller manufacturing industries associated with that, that make parts) and add many of them in as homeless or starving. Ohio would probably be under marshall law right now. It would be very, very ugly.

Adding healthcare for the uninsured (40 million people max out of 300 million) - that's not a very expensive thing. Seriously - a trillion over 10 years, less than 1% of our budget.

I am really, really old But what I was talking about was Nixon and gold. I vaguely remember the horror when Lyndon Johnson implemented Medicare. And healthcare - I wish Bush had done it. That was something he had talked about. He got distracted by wars.

the war got us out of the depression. and two wars helped get us into this one.
i just read where we're going to spend millions to get afgani's not to plant poppy seeds. hell, we must be better off then i thought.


japan attempted the stimulus way out of their recession a few years back-it didn't work. that was one of the things mentioned when d.c. started ramping up talks about one here. wise is he who learns from others' mistakes. but i guess we're not that wise.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

japan attempted the stimulus way out of their recession a few years back-it didn't work. that was one of the things mentioned when d.c. started ramping up talks about one here. wise is he who learns from others' mistakes. but i guess we're not that wise.

But so far it appears to be working just fine.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

But so far it appears to be working just fine.

our stimulus and recovery is just fine?! really?!?! i read today that if you include people working part-time who used to work full time, and people who have given up on finding a job into the unemployment figures, that we're at almost 17% unemployment. yeah, it sounds just peachy to me. but i guess i should listen to barack more, and the naysayers less....

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Danzig

our stimulus and recovery is just fine?! really?!?! i read today that if you include people working part-time who used to work full time, and people who have given up on finding a job into the unemployment figures, that we're at almost 17% unemployment. yeah, it sounds just peachy to me. but i guess i should listen to barack more, and the naysayers less....

So...Obama is to blame for this? As I always ask anyone who is blaming Obama...please..what would you be doing differently? Details Deb, AJ, Cannon, Dell...Nothing? No Stimulus? No bailouts? No cash for clunkers?

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works

Obama has already given them a tax cut in their paychecks.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GBBob

So...Obama is to blame for this? As I always ask anyone who is blaming Obama...please..what would you be doing differently? Details Deb, AJ, Cannon, Dell...Nothing? No Stimulus? No bailouts? No cash for clunkers?

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works:zz:

i'm not one to say that the exact opposite is the correct way. what i am saying is that things are certainly far from rosey, and that now is not the time to be spending billions more dollars we don't have than we are already spending. if the deficit is the huge problem many feel it is, how can growing that deficit be the answer?

obama is another politician. no more, no less. you won't see me on here cheerleading for any party. to me they are both the same, out for themselves and what keeps them in power. and no, no cash for clunkers-how ridiculous. as for the banks, that was years in the making, and should never have been allowed to occur. the war in iraq wouldn't have happened either-these are rhetorical questions, right? so i can turn back time?


edit-and no, i don't think obama is to blame for 'all this'. but i think he's ignoring what is really going on right now in his attempt to push this health care idea. this is not the right time for the govt to become larger. instead, he needs to end our two wars that are doing so much to drain our funds-that is our biggest expense, and is what took us from good times to bad. he's not to blame, our govt is. and right now, he's the leader of that govt. d.c. got us into this mess, they need to get us out. but i won't hold my breath.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

So...Obama is to blame for this? As I always ask anyone who is blaming Obama...please..what would you be doing differently? Details Deb, AJ, Cannon, Dell...Nothing? No Stimulus? No bailouts? No cash for clunkers?

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works

I would change things by actually do something for the people that have been hurt the most and helped the least by the Obama agenda, small business. Instead of "creating" temporary govt fueled jobs, help the employers get back on thier feet without creating burdens like mandated healthcare. Concentrate on getting your own party in line with your ideas and not let second rate hacks like pelosi and reid who are dispised by a vast majority of the countries citizens regardless of demographic, run the show. Understand that Unions are detrimental to world trade in regards to US companies ability to compete and scale their influence back by just telling them no instead of giving them the keys to the blackhole that GM has become. Stop worrying about populist programs designed to swing votes instead of work constructively. Work on reducing the defecit now that it has been taken to epic heights. Remember that our allies abroad have been supportive of us and not keep stepping on their toes to curry favor with despots and religious maniacs.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GBBob

So...Obama is to blame for this? As I always ask anyone who is blaming Obama...please..what would you be doing differently? Details Deb, AJ, Cannon, Dell...Nothing? No Stimulus? No bailouts? No cash for clunkers?

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works

So....why don't you critique what the great one has done so far.....try balancing the book also!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

our stimulus and recovery is just fine?! really?!?! i read today that if you include people working part-time who used to work full time, and people who have given up on finding a job into the unemployment figures, that we're at almost 17% unemployment. yeah, it sounds just peachy to me. but i guess i should listen to barack more, and the naysayers less....

"The unemployment rate fell to 9.4 percent as the U.S. economy shed 247,000 jobs in July, the government announced on Friday morning. The drop -- the first in 15 months -- comes as a surprise; economists had expected the rate to rise to as high as 9.7 percent.

By a broader measure that includes people who've given up looking for work or who can't find full-time jobs, the unemployment rate fell to 16.3 percent, down from 16.5 percent in June."


'Zig, read this synopsis of the major economic indicators this guy has cobbled from Bloomberg, etc. We're not out, by any means, and won't be soon, but we are standing back from the precipice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-s..._b_254600.html

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

"The unemployment rate fell to 9.4 percent as the U.S. economy shed 247,000 jobs in July, the government announced on Friday morning. The drop -- the first in 15 months -- comes as a surprise; economists had expected the rate to rise to as high as 9.7 percent.

By a broader measure that includes people who've given up looking for work or who can't find full-time jobs, the unemployment rate fell to 16.3 percent, down from 16.5 percent in June."


'Zig, read this synopsis of the major economic indicators this guy has cobbled from Bloomberg, etc. We're not out, by any means, and won't be soon, but we are standing back from the precipice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-s..._b_254600.html

The definition of a good week certainly has changed. Yeah we only lost a quarter of a million jobs last month! But thats better than last month!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

But so far it appears to be working just fine.

Yeah the stimlus is working so great they have been talking about another....

[hi_im_god]

this is really bad.

i haven't seen this many pissed off old white people since they cancelled matlock.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

this is really bad.

i haven't seen this many pissed off old white people since they cancelled matlock.

I havent seen so many brainwashed people since the original dawn of the dead.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

this is really bad.

i haven't seen this many pissed off old white people since they cancelled matlock.

Wait until November 3, 2010.