The sad cost of war

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you think people are getting "the slow treatment" now, wait till the new system starts. If the new system is anything like the systems in most other countries with socialized medicine, the wait time will increase by about 5x.

Then you should be glad that, if it passes, you can keep your regular doctor, hospital, insurance company, etc. and not have to be involved in it at all.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Then you should be glad that, if it passes, you can keep your regular doctor, hospital, insurance company, etc. and not have to be involved in it at all.

We won't have a choice if we end up with the single-payer system. Obama claims that he is not in favor of a single-payer system. Yet back in 2003, he said a single-payer system was the ultimate goal.

This new plan will probably be the beginning of the end of private insurance.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...olution-obama/

[Riot]

Fox News hasn't demonstrated much accuracy to me in relaying the content of the various health care bill permutations working their way through committee. The falsehoods and misassumptions are rampant.

Private insurance companies will not go anywhere unless people who use private insurance companies choose to no longer use them.

The health care bill is intended to cover only a [relatively] small amount of Americans.

I find it strange that many of the most publically rabid opponents of any health care bill are not consistent in their beliefs, and are not campaigning in favor of eliminating all government-run "socialist" medicine, such as Medicare, Medicade, and the Veterans programs.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Fox News hasn't demonstrated much accuracy to me in relaying the content of the various health care bill permutations working their way through committee. The falsehoods and misassumptions are rampant.

Private insurance companies will not go anywhere unless people who use private insurance companies choose to no longer use them.

The health care bill is intended to cover only a [relatively] small amount of Americans.

I find it strange that many of the most publically rabid opponents of any health care bill are not consistent in their beliefs, and are not campaigning in favor of eliminating all government-run "socialist" medicine, such as Medicare, Medicade, and the Veterans programs.

For a supposedly business friendly Republican you take an awful lot of anti-business stances. For a program that is only "intended to cover a small amount of Americans", a few trillion is pretty hefty price no?

The idea that anyone who doesnt agree with the policy coming down from the mountaintop is spreading falsehoods and lies is ironic. The fact is that this is going to be exactly what it looks like, a huge boondoggle that eats up everything along the way and becomes so large that it simply exists to live and lives to exist. This is just another part of a radical agenda. The fact that Medicare and Medicade are so screwed up and inefficent should be warning enough that this **** they are trying to squeeze through will be miles worse. Not to mention the negative effect it will have on American small business which as usual will be forced to carry an unfair burden.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is just another part of a radical agenda.

Radical? So, most civilized countries in the world are radical? Let me tell you something about this country that is radical. We are way out of the norm as far as immigration goes. We are radical on that. There is no excuse for it. Other countries do not just let anybody come there n' play house as long as they'd like to stay. This Health Care stuff is not radical. It's the same shared risk stuff that most other countries think is the right thing to do. This is not cutting edge "radical" stuff, but this is exactly how things get turned around by the self-centered folks in our society. We voted on this. That's a huge part of what that election was about. Seems like Conservatives thought the guy was just kiding. Why didn't you people work like dogs when we had the Presidential Election? You knew he wanted to get everyone insured. He won. This is like children having a fit when they have to actually walk the dog that they so convincingly promised to take care of. You don't have any solutions to this problem. None. There is a big problem. Your party has ignored it, and only comes alive to fight a solution you don't agree with. That's simply not an answer to the problem. The real reason you couldn't win that election is you had a candidate who only knows how to lead resistance. People need solutions. He was a big fat zero at coming up with solutions to problems. 90%of what you Conservative folks write on here is fighting someone's idea of how to solve a problem. Very little solutions are ever brought up by Conservatives. Tax breaks for the rich ain't the ointment to solve these health care problems. It just isn't. What should of been done by Republicans in Congress is to get something you want from the President. Demand he throw every tool possible at stoping illegal immigration. That seems a reasonable demand (since it's Americans that should be getting insured...not some kid that somebody illegally jumped a wall to have born here.)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

He's gunna have to grow a set, and attach it to a budget bill (so that it can pass under budget reconciliation rules.) Enough with the Kumbaya bullshit. They've got filthy lobbying money from insurance companies contaminating the whole issue. So, if reconciliation is ugly, then fine. All they ever want is war. They understand ugly. They only understand force n' power. So be it. Just do it. They don't want to negotiate. When you get done, punish that Blue-Dog Bitch from Lousiana. She's a crook like her Daddy.

[Riot]

For a supposedly business friendly Republican you take an awful lot of anti-business stances. For a program that is only "intended to cover a small amount of Americans", a few trillion is pretty hefty price no?

What's "anti-business" about wanting people to be able to afford, and to have, health care?

That "few trillion" is one trillion over 10 years. Less than 1% of our budget.

The idea that anyone who doesnt agree with the policy coming down from the mountaintop is spreading falsehoods and lies is ironic.

?? I haven't said that. I have said that FoxNews hasn't been accurately relaying what's in the various parts of the various bills making way through Committee, and that's certainly true. You have to know what the options are, before you can debate them.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

What's "anti-business" about wanting people to be able to afford, and to have, health care?

That "few trillion" is one trillion over 10 years. Less than 1% of our budget.



?? I haven't said that. I have said that FoxNews hasn't been accurately relaying what's in the various parts of the various bills making way through Committee, and that's certainly true. You have to know what the options are, before you can debate them.

It would "right neighborly" of the Dems to be real transparent and put out the 1000 page legislation for public dissemination....

[SOREHOOF]

Don't worry, they'll tell us what they think it says.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

It would "right neighborly" of the Dems to be real transparent and put out the 1000 page legislation for public dissemination....

I think this is the one. Not easy to find bills if you don't know the #.http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...1c8iPU8:e1562:

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

It would "right neighborly" of the Dems to be real transparent and put out the 1000 page legislation for public dissemination....

You could just pay attention to what is being discussed quite openly and publically in the news media:

No single payer.
No euthanizing old people.
No giving up your regular insurance, doctor, hospitals.
No involvement at all unless you choose to be involved.
No "trillions of dollars"
No government official dictating your health care to you.

No change at all to the 80% of Americans that have private health insurance now. None. Zero. Zip.

For the 20% of your fellow Americans that do not now have health insurance, that are costing emergency rooms millions of dollars, who have no wellness health care at all, who are unable to afford huge private health insurance monthly premium payments or get insured again because they have had cancer, endocrine disease, etc and their private carrier refused to pay, or rescinded their policy to get out of paying for a permanent health problem on an ongoing basis - you will be able to afford health insurance. And you will not be excluded for pre-existing conditions.

Because we are a country that takes care of our own.

And for the 80% of people that are now insured - at your next big claim, when you ask your insurance company to pay but they suddenly refuse to pay and/or they rescind you - well, you can get insured again, too, if you like.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

What's "anti-business" about wanting people to be able to afford, and to have, health care?

That "few trillion" is one trillion over 10 years. Less than 1% of our budget.



?? I haven't said that. I have said that FoxNews hasn't been accurately relaying what's in the various parts of the various bills making way through Committee, and that's certainly true. You have to know what the options are, before you can debate them.

Understand the issues and we can discuss them. If you cant understand the negative impact on small business (really small businesses, $500k/25 employees not $50 million dollar revenue small businesses) then there is no need to further discuss with you. Build a campfire and sing kumbaya.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Understand the issues and we can discuss them. If you cant understand the negative impact on small business (really small businesses, $500k/25 employees not $50 million dollar revenue small businesses) then there is no need to further discuss with you. Build a campfire and sing kumbaya.

and if that doesn't work click your heels together and say, "there's no place like home"

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Understand the issues and we can discuss them. If you cant understand the negative impact on small business (really small businesses, $500k/25 employees not $50 million dollar revenue small businesses) then there is no need to further discuss with you. Build a campfire and sing kumbaya.

If you can't understand that providing health care for the minority of Americans that are uninsured will help the economy - oh, yes, those big insurance companies, too, and hospitals, and thousands and thousands of "small business" doctors and health care providers (laboratories, radiology, pharmacy, etc) - aside from helping real live people, I can't help you.

If a certain provision passes (and it may not, and I assume this is what you are worried about) what it says is the only small businesses that would have to provide health care (if they do not now) would be those that have a payroll of over $250K/year. And, they can get very cheap health care for their employees if this passes, at far less than 8% of their payroll.

And additionally, having other, less expensive options - provider choices - available for purchasing healthcare only helps all small businessess by cutting their costs.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

Then you should be glad that, if it passes, you can keep your regular doctor, hospital, insurance company, etc. and not have to be involved in it at all.

That is until they are forced out of business. They will now have to compete with a heavily subsided plan funded by tax payers. In the end it will be a gov run mess. The good news for older Americans is that they plan to equalize the risk..meaning that the younger people will pay a heavier burden than older people relative to their probable illness factor ....so if you are older rejoice and thank your younger brethren for paying your disproportionate way.


Riot let me be the first to thank you!