The sad cost of war

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

All you need to do is look at all the great success government has when it runs anything vs the private sector. Schools and the Post Office come immediately to mind. What's nauseating is watching a President talk of how all this preventative care will save money in between smoke breaks during which his obese nominee for surgeon general preaches the great cost obesity related illness has on all of us.

What schools does the federal government run? ( edit: West Point?)

Local governments? Let's see, clean potable water, sewer service, garbage pickup, police and fire protection, snow clearing from roads, and excellent schools in many locations - all little niceties that make life liveable.

Federal? Medicare, Pell grants, veterans hospitals, Centers for Disease Control ...

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

What schools does the federal government run? ( edit: West Point?)

Local governments? Let's see, clean potable water, sewer service, garbage pickup, police and fire protection, snow clearing from roads, and excellent schools in many locations - all little niceties that make life liveable.

Federal? Medicare, Pell grants, veterans hospitals, Centers for Disease Control ...

From the (non-existent) U.S. Department of Education


ED currently administers a budget of $62.6 billion in regular FY 2009 discretionary appropriations and $96.8 billion in discretionary funding provided under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009—and operates programs that touch on every area and level of education.

[hi_im_god]

this is why moral people don't start wars on a whim.

other people pay the price.

[Mike]

Good evening, Dellinger.

What are your thoughts on the initial subject of this thread, an extremely high suicide rate among our soldiers?

I don't think it's as easily dismissed as "Suicide rates are going up across the board over the last 30 yrs. All walks of life".

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Mike

Good evening, Dellinger.

What are your thoughts on the initial subject of this thread, an extremely high suicide rate among our soldiers?

I don't think it's as easily dismissed as "Suicide rates are going up across the board over the last 30 yrs. All walks of life".

I think a good portion of troops and probably the majority signed on for reasons other than patriotism or just wantng to be a soilder. They wanted an education or specialized training in a trade. Very few signed on for a career in the military. IMO. When the realty hits they are being shipped off they can't handle the fear. Or while in war they need an easy way out.

Ultimately though I feel it's a disrespect of life that is fueling the increase of suicides across the board. That and selfishness for not thinking of the loved ones left behind to pick up the pieces.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I think a good portion of troops and probably the majority signed on for reasons other than patriotism or just wantng to be a soilder. They wanted an education or specialized training in a trade. Very few signed on for a career in the military. IMO. When the realty hits they are being shipped off they can't handle the fear. Or while in war they need an easy way out.

Ultimately though I feel it's a disrespect of life that is fueling the increase of suicides across the board. That and selfishness for not thinking of the loved ones left behind to pick up the pieces.

your empathy is overwhelming.

you should think about starting your own needless war.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

your empathy is overwhelming.

you should think about starting your own needless war.

Maybe allowing the troops to wear makeup would help? Think that was another brilliant Clinton idea. Maybe it's the fact the military wants to ban smoking while the Commander in Chief smokes?

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Maybe allowing the troops to wear makeup would help? Think that was another brilliant Clinton idea. Maybe it's the fact the military wants to ban smoking while the Commander in Chief smokes?

i like the fact that you can twist a subject about people serving the country killing themselves into a bank shot about whatever obsessive thought enters your mind.

didn't al gore invent non-smoking gays in the military?

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I think a good portion of troops and probably the majority signed on for reasons other than patriotism or just wantng to be a soilder. They wanted an education or specialized training in a trade. Very few signed on for a career in the military. IMO. When the realty hits they are being shipped off they can't handle the fear. Or while in war they need an easy way out.

Ultimately though I feel it's a disrespect of life that is fueling the increase of suicides across the board. That and selfishness for not thinking of the loved ones left behind to pick up the pieces.

This has very little to do with why people do or do not commit suicide. It is a rational act for those that do take their life - but to those left behind it is not rational.

PTSD is not understood by those who have never experienced it or have loved ones that live with it. It takes lots and lots of therapy to recover , but for many a a single bullet works to ease the pain and depression.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I think a good portion of troops and probably the majority signed on for reasons other than patriotism or just wantng to be a soilder. They wanted an education or specialized training in a trade. Very few signed on for a career in the military. IMO. When the realty hits they are being shipped off they can't handle the fear. Or while in war they need an easy way out.

Ultimately though I feel it's a disrespect of life that is fueling the increase of suicides across the board. That and selfishness for not thinking of the loved ones left behind to pick up the pieces.

That and too many people being on under supervised anti-depressants that doctors hand out left and right.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

From the (non-existent) U.S. Department of Education


ED currently administers a budget of $62.6 billion in regular FY 2009 discretionary appropriations and $96.8 billion in discretionary funding provided under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009—and operates programs that touch on every area and level of education.

That isn't "running schools".

I'm extremely glad of my Clinton-initiated student loan availability (he made changes) that made it possible for me to attend professional school. Payed them back, gladly. US Dept of Ed. rocks. Website: piece of cake to make payments, apply for this and that, etc. Best customer service evah.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

That isn't "running schools".

I'm extremely glad of my Clinton-initiated student loan availability (he made changes) that made it possible for me to attend professional school. Payed them back, gladly. US Dept of Ed. rocks. Website: piece of cake to make payments, apply for this and that, etc. Best customer service evah.

and this is why you became a Democrat? Or was it the Carter authored, anti-Semitic books you read? By the way Clinton gave you crap. Taxpayers made that loan available, Clinton just took the credit. And since the richest 10% pay the vast majority of taxes it is them you should thank.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

and this is why you became a Democrat? Or was it the Carter authored, anti-Semitic books you read? By the way Clinton gave you crap. Taxpayers made that loan available, Clinton just took the credit. And since the richest 10% pay the vast majority of taxes it is them you should thank.

Sorry, Dell - I'm still an old-fashioned, conservative, business-oriented Republican.

You've never read a Carter-authored book, so I know you don't have any real clue as to his writings.

Clinton initiated the changes to the student loan program. Not the taxpayers (who got their money back from me, with interest). I didn't vote for him, but I had to thank him for that.

Regarding our soldiers. I don't know how the Gulf wars (the current) compare to Viet Nam regarding troop suicide. That was a terrible time, Viet Nam, watching people come home, changed. I thought I read somewhere that suicides started to increase in the Gulf as soldiers had their tours extended, again and again, with no end in sight; and were over there with no clear idea of what the hell they were fighting for.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

And since the richest 10% pay the vast majority of taxes it is them you should thank.

That's ill (defined.) I think you have your reason for a lot of these suicides (glorification of wealth, and an overall devaluation of the people that do the real work in a society.) Just look at these sporting events that a guy in the military might want to take his kid to. He did a real job so he could pay huge money for a very few to play a game (as a "job.") He's paying their tax. They sure aren't gunna make that money without ordinary people working hard to pay them.