Travers Buzz: Quality Road a yes..

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by -BT-

thats a pretty bold stand right there.............personally i still think he's one of the best 3 YO's in the country, and has a pretty solid chance

-bt-

Agree with you. This guy cruised 9f back in the spring and certainly wasn't pointing at the Amsterdam. There is evidence that the time may not have been legit, and the track was lightning fast, so it's not like the "modest" speed figures (103 Beyer) will point to a big bounce. On the contrary, they may show he's ready to jump again.

[the_fat_man]

Reminds me of that old Ray Milland movie, where a college professor discovers a liquid that repels when around wood and uses it to fashion a (short) career as a pitcher. He pretty much runs out of it for his final game, however.

It appears that Pletcher has found some of that Lawyer Ron elixir laying around. Would be interesting to see what kind of run QR puts in in the Travers. Stretchout not an issue, in this case.

[Scav]

I am surprised that more people haven't talked about the Amsterdam being a possible workout for the Travers. Trainers use races all the time to get their horses fit and maybe he needed an actual race to get him primed...

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Scav

I am surprised that more people haven't talked about the Amsterdam being a possible workout for the Travers. Trainers use races all the time to get their horses fit and maybe he needed an actual race to get him primed...

Totally agree.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Scav

I am surprised that more people haven't talked about the Amsterdam being a possible workout for the Travers. Trainers use races all the time to get their horses fit and maybe he needed an actual race to get him primed...

Assume the horse wasn't fit. Then you have to deal with it running that monster effort and needing one?

But someone needs to explain to me how blazing 6.5F gets him fit to run 10F.

He probably has enough natural speed for 10F, so I don't get having to tighten him up or put some speed into him. There's still the stamina factor.

I think that NYRA will step up and do the 'right' thing for the Travers: soup up the track, get it favoring frontrunners, and anticipate some 'monster' efforts from the kickback specialists.

If you add the track bias factor to the 'tightner' and the 'elixir' factors, you have a formula for certain success.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Reminds me of that old Ray Milland movie, where a college professor discovers a liquid that repels when around wood and uses it to fashion a (short) career as a pitcher. He pretty much runs out of it for his final game, however.

It appears that Pletcher has found some of that Lawyer Ron elixir laying around. Would be interesting to see what kind of run QR puts in in the Travers. Stretchout not an issue, in this case.

The difference is that Quality Road was a good horse before Pletcher got him. Lawyer Ron was a wayward minor graded stakes competitor.

I've always subscribed to the theory that Lawyer Ron needed a stronger rider and a more relaxed regimen and he got that moving to Pletcher's barn.

NT

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The difference is that Quality Road was a good horse before Pletcher got him. Lawyer Ron was a wayward minor graded stakes competitor.

I've always subscribed to the theory that Lawyer Ron needed a stronger rider and a more relaxed regimen and he got that moving to Pletcher's barn.

NT

Yeah that and every seemingly decent horse from his crop getting hurt or retiring after their three year old year. The older horse crop in his 4 yo year was hardly stellar.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah that and every seemingly decent horse from his crop getting hurt or retiring after their three year old year. The older horse crop in his 4 yo year was hardly stellar.

That certainly didn't hurt. You were too generous, though, the 4YOs with Lawyer Ron were atrocious.

The Super Derby is a perfect example of what changes Lawyer Ron needed as his tin man jockey can do nothing as he attempts to run off only to be caught late by Strong Contender, who was given a day pass out of John Ward's barn.

NT

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

That certainly didn't hurt. You were too generous, though, the 4YOs with Lawyer Ron were atrocious.

The Super Derby is a perfect example of what changes Lawyer Ron needed as his tin man jockey can do nothing as he attempts to run off only to be caught late by Strong Contender, who was given a day pass out of John Ward's barn.

NT

McKee didnt help the horse for sure

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah that and every seemingly decent horse from his crop getting hurt or retiring after their three year old year. The older horse crop in his 4 yo year was hardly stellar.

2006 derby field tells the story pretty well.
Barbaro- injured, deceased
Bluegrass Cat- retired
Steppenwolfer- plodder that never moved forward at 4
Jazil- plodder that never moved forward at 4
Brother Derek- injured, retired
Showing Up- moved to turf, turned into a beast
Sweetnorthernsaint- never got back to his 3yo spring form
Deputy Glitters- fell apart after ok Ohio Derby
Point Determined- ?
Seaside Retreat- turned out ok in Canada
Storm Treasure- turned out ok as a turf horse
Lawyer Ron- transferred, freaked
Cause to Believe- ?
Flashy Bull- never ran fast races but found ways to win a few big races, turned out ok
Private Vow- ?
Sinister Minister- only ran a couple times in Cal, not well
Bob and John- ?
AP Warrior- retired
Sharp Humor- injured, retired
Keyed Entry- headcase sprinter

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The difference is that Quality Road was a good horse before Pletcher got him. Lawyer Ron was a wayward minor graded stakes competitor.

I've always subscribed to the theory that Lawyer Ron needed a stronger rider and a more relaxed regimen and he got that moving to Pletcher's barn.

NT

Stronger rider? He ate Johnny V up in the race at BEL (against Curlin).

Here's the deal with Pletcher (and Johnny V):

when his horses win with those ridiculous WIDE, NO COVER trips, then they're strongly handled and reveling in the 'relaxed regimen'

when they collapse, like typical horses would, as a result of these trips

it must be that they're not getting the strong handling or reveling in the relaxed regimen

For a good example of how horses typically run with the patented Johnny V trip (when not riding for Pletcher) check out any of Patrick Husbands' rides up at WO. And I do mean, 'ANY'.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Stronger rider? He ate Johnny V up in the race at BEL (against Curlin).

Here's the deal with Pletcher (and Johnny V):

when his horses win with those ridiculous WIDE, NO COVER trips, then they're strongly handled and reveling in the 'relaxed regimen'

when they collapse, like typical horses would, as a result of these trips

it must be that they're not getting the strong handling or reveling in the relaxed regimen

For a good example of how horses typically run with the patented Johnny V trip (when not riding for Pletcher) check out any of Patrick Husbands' rides up at WO. And I do mean, 'ANY'.

Lawyer Ron was headstrong no matter what but he was certainly more relaxed for Pletcher and JV. The two races LR ran at Saratoga remain somewhat enigmatic given that he was perfectly tractable and did whatever JV wanted with the typical JV trip.

To get back to your original point though, there's no magic elixir being given to QR in my opinion because he was already good.

NT

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

To get back to your original point though, there's no magic elixir being given to QR in my opinion because he was already good.

NT

This remains to be determined, given his performance in the Travers. How much better did he project after the FD than Dunkirk?

[tector]

Assuming QR took care of business in the Travers, and RA did so in the Woodward, they could always meet in the JCGC. Unlike the terminally boring connections of Zenyatta, the players in these camps are not going to be afraid of making it happen.

The Woodward is the logical spot for her, especially given Kensai, who needs an opportunity to pump up his value as a stallion. If Pletcher is so all fired hot to have QR meet her, he can show up there, too. I really fail to see why, given her accomplishments to date, RA is obligated to go anywhere for anybody at this point. If she runs in a race that is absolutely open to anybody--fillies and colts--3YO and up--she is taking on all comers. What the hell more do you want? It is the others who are not taking up the gauntlet. She is the leading candidate for HOY right now. If somebody else wants it they can come to her or (probably, if they are named QR, Zenyatta and maybe Einstein) go win the BC Classic.