BC shamed into making Whitney a "Win/In"

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by philcski

It WAS a great thing... until they decided to have it at the same place two years in a row with a comically bad surface. It WILL be great again in 2010 at CD.

I'm glad you posted this. The BC is still a great thing. The idea to run it on fake dirt (twice in a row at that) was a bad thing. Horribly bad. But even with that bad decision, how else in the world would we have seen some of the matchups that the BC brought us? We would have never seen Zenyatta vs. Music Note and Cocoa Beach. We wouldn't have seen Curlin vs. the world. Were Goldikova and Conduit going to come over for the Matriarch and Hollywood Turf Cup? Indian Blessing vs. Ventura. Throughout the year, we get the sporadic matchups of one or two of the top horses in a division. The BC is still the only spot where we get usually 3-4 of the top ones all in the same race and we get that for multiple divisions all at the same time. It was and still is the best day of racing that we have. A lot of people are down on it because they say that it de-emphasizes the rest of the year too much and that voters place too much emphasis on it when it comes to voting for champions. While I agree that they do, I say that you have to blame the voters and the ones that campaign the horses for putting the top horses together so few times during the year that the BC is often the only time we get to see them matched up. Blaming the BC for how trainers now campaign their horses is like blaming the Kentucky Derby because more and more trainers are looking at two preps instead of three and more are coming into the race 5-7 weeks out instead of the traditional 3-4. You don't blame the event for the changing attitudes when the event has stayed the same.

[chucklestheclown]

You can see Goldikova on TVG quite often, and why you'd be waiting to see Cocoa Beach is beyond me. Toga should have told them to stick it where the sun don't shine and run a card equal to what the BC will be...3 weeks earlier.

[the_fat_man]

Damn, we can't quite get through any thread here without some POLY whining.

Why is anything that's happening on DIRT any better?

And this, after the leader of the DIRT movement, Mr Beyer himself, personally did some ad hoc tweaking of his synthetic figures so his followers would have a clue.

Guess there's no convincing those who love (to roll around in) dirt.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Damn, we can't quite get through any thread here without some POLY whining.

Why is anything that's happening on DIRT any better?

And this, after the leader of the DIRT movement, Mr Beyer himself, personally did some ad hoc tweaking of his synthetic figures so his followers would have a clue.

Guess there's no convincing those who love (to roll around in) dirt.

The only thing wrong with Poly is the racing tends to be borish..I don't think it lends itself to flattering a horses turn of foot. I think watching a TB acelerate is what thrills fans. Plodding doesn't seem to get the heart beating. As for making money betting it, I believe any hi quality capper who puts the time and effort in will be rewarded regardless of the surface.

I think you also have to understand that it is a third surface. So many stars or hi quality animals aren't necessarily able to be good on dirt and poly. So you may have a multiple grade 1 winner on dirt who can't run a step on the stuff. that isn't good for the sport. The sport needs its stars to have a fair shot at being stars on the sports biggest showcase day

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The only thing wrong with Poly is the racing tends to be borish..I don't think it lends itself to flattering a horses turn of foot. I think watching a TB acelerate is what thrills fans. Plodding doesn't seem to get the heart beating. As for making money betting it, I believe any hi quality capper who puts the time and effort in will be rewarded regardless of the surface.

I think you also have to understand that it is a third surface. So many stars or hi quality animals aren't necessarily able to be good on dirt and poly. So you may have a multiple grade 1 winner on dirt who can't run a step on the stuff. that isn't good for the sport. The sport needs its stars to have a fair shot at being stars on the sports biggest showcase day

Absolutely the opposite. Horses that run well on turf and poly are much better athletes. (Look at Curlin, as an example. No horse was capable of pushing a bigger gear than he but he just wasn't nimble enough in the turf race and was swallowed by the race dynamics in the classic -- dynamics he would probably overcome on dirt.) Their footwork is significantly better than dirt horses. Fire up a headon replay sometime of a turf sprint and watch how many lead changes some of these horses are going through on the backstretch. And, as far as the acceleration part: watch last years turf mile and notice how the filly takes off like a rocket after drafting and having to wait behind horses.

There are no bursts on dirt. No quick lead changes to avoid trouble. It's a bunch of plodders taking advantage of the kickback. The reason there's so much whining about poly is that dirt players aren't accustomed to horses accelerating the way they do on poly (and turf). They're used to a speed horse going out there and being carried by the track. Those that play a lot of turf know that to wire on the turf (and poly) is to clearly be best. And, that the best horse in the race need not be compromised by the track in a lone speed race, as, a well time burst more often than not can run down just about any frontrunner. There's your problem: simple handicapping like picking out the clear speed of the race just doesn't work as well on these surfaces Something a bit more complex is needed.

Tell you this much, Bro. I started a few years ago (when I returned to the game) by playing almost exclusively power closers on the turf. Now, more than half of my game consists of playing speed on POLY (and turf).

It's DIRT racing that's UGLY.

[freddymo]

Horses exploding with amazing turn of foot on poly? Honestly I don't see it at all. Sure on turf you see a 11 flat furlongs by a powerful closer but I honestly havent noticed Poly resembling a quality exciting turf race. I really have no issue with poly I just think the racing tends to be blah.

But the point is not if the racing style is good or not just that when the sports stars are running on dirt and then can't run on poly it isn't good for the sport. Curlin(who I really had little use for) wasn't capable of showing himself as a star on poly and that was not OK for the sport