NBA Draft 2009

Originally Posted by dalakhani

LOL Most players get better with maturity pgardn. A "project" in NBA parlance refers to a guy that isnt ready to contribute much immediately but there is potential that he can contribute in the future. Kevin Durant certainly DOES NOT fit that profile.

Most NBA point guards are drafted in the hope of contributing something pretty quickly. You dont stash a point guard "project" at the back of the bench like you would a big man. Tony Parker started 72 of 77 games his rookie year for a playoff team in san antonio and was all rookie. He started for a championship team his next year. He wasnt a "project". They drafted him as a player and they got one.

If a team drafts Rubio, it isnt to be a "project". They want some kind of immediate contribution. I question whether that is realistic. Perhaps I will be proven wrong.

Scratch the word project then.
Its used too many diff. ways.
Just like Power Forward.

Tony Parker was pulled numerous times during his first
3 seasons as a Spur in the 4th quarter for more polished
guys. The Spurs had no idea that he would be so good,
no idea. Popvich had many doubts about Parker's mental
game but stuck it out with him because he was so young.

Look.
Rubio is a ball handling genius. He can be bullied because
he is still a kid physically. The NBA is tough. But he will play and contribute
imo mainly because he understands the game.
Can he be intimitated physically? Maybe. Just like Parker was.
He is NOT Derrick Rose physically. He is NOt Ty Lawson or
Johnny Flynn physically. But I personally think he is a better
player. I think he upside is higher than both these guys.
This is what I mean by project, which might be the wrong term.

And yes we will see.
I thought Oden would be a defensive nightmare and rebounder,
and thought L. Aldridge would be a run of the mill
off the bench type.

[Cannon Shell]

Rubio can play. Seriously.

Lawson is a nice player but isnt growing anytime soon.

Thabeet may be tall but i cant help think of how Blair of Pittsburgh totally bitched him out.

Mullen is a career backup with 6 fouls at best. Out of the league in 2 years at worst.

Hansborough is a backup at best. He has zero lateral quickness, has a crude offensive game and simply isnt that big. David Lee would eats his lunch.

This is a terrible draft.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Rubio can play. Seriously.

Lawson is a nice player but isnt growing anytime soon.

Thabeet may be tall but i cant help think of how Blair of Pittsburgh totally bitched him out.

Mullen is a career backup with 6 fouls at best. Out of the league in 2 years at worst.

Hansborough is a backup at best. He has zero lateral quickness, has a crude offensive game and simply isnt that big. David Lee would eats his lunch.

This is a terrible draft.

We will see about Rubio. I watched the olympics and have seen everything you guys have. I want to watch him guarding real NBA pgs in a real NBA game not the olympics. Two totally different games.

Thabeet can rebound and block shots until he fills out and perhaps develops a defensive game.

Hansborough is a career back up. Lee is a totally different player.

This draft is bad at the top but deep with mediocrity.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Hansborough is a career back up. Lee is a totally different player.

While I agree with you on that the fact is David Lee was the 30th pick and never looked like more than an 8 and 6 guy in the NBA off his time at Florida. He's the perfect example of a late round pick that you'd never expect to become a really good NBA player that does.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

While I agree with you on that the fact is David Lee was the 30th pick and never looked like more than an 8 and 6 guy in the NBA off his time at Florida. He's the perfect example of a late round pick that you'd never expect to become a really good NBA player that does.

One big difference though. Lee was always amazingly athletic.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Scratch the word project then.
Its used too many diff. ways.
Just like Power Forward.

Tony Parker was pulled numerous times during his first
3 seasons as a Spur in the 4th quarter for more polished
guys. The Spurs had no idea that he would be so good,
no idea. Popvich had many doubts about Parker's mental
game but stuck it out with him because he was so young.

Look.
Rubio is a ball handling genius. He can be bullied because
he is still a kid physically. The NBA is tough. But he will play and contribute
imo mainly because he understands the game.
Can he be intimitated physically? Maybe. Just like Parker was.
He is NOT Derrick Rose physically. He is NOt Ty Lawson or
Johnny Flynn physically. But I personally think he is a better
player. I think he upside is higher than both these guys.
This is what I mean by project, which might be the wrong term.

And yes we will see.
I thought Oden would be a defensive nightmare and rebounder,
and thought L. Aldridge would be a run of the mill
off the bench type.

Yes, all of those things you say about Parker are true except they did know what they had right away. They knew they didnt have to trade up to draft him because 2001 was before drafting euros was really in vogue and in fact he was the third french guy drafted...ever. Pop stuck with him because he knew that he had great talent.

Rubio is a "ball handling genius"? yes, he showed stretches in international play but its a different game here. We will see. All the scouts and everyone on here agree with you so I realize my view is somewhat contrarian. To me, I think these people are insane.

[King Glorious]

Even though it's international play and against good players, it's still exhibition ball for the most part. Consider how good Patrick Mills of Australia looked. After watching him in the Olympics, you half expected him to completely dominate in college at Santa Clara and while he has been a good college player, he's not reached the levels of his rave Olympic reviews.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Even though it's international play and against good players, it's still exhibition ball for the most part. Consider how good Patrick Mills of Australia looked. After watching him in the Olympics, you half expected him to completely dominate in college at Santa Clara and while he has been a good college player, he's not reached the levels of his rave Olympic reviews.

Uh he was hurt...

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh he was hurt...

He played well...but in a league that is not exactly known for defense and its not like he was putting up 40 a game. He averaged 18 per game and shot 40% from the field.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

He played well...but in a league that is not exactly known for defense and its not like he was putting up 40 a game. He averaged 18 per game and shot 40% from the field.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...c-without-him/

I think he is an Aaron Brooks type who will do just fine with the right team but those kind of guys arent highly coveted. He is not a great shooter but that is something that can be improved.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...c-without-him/

I think he is an Aaron Brooks type who will do just fine with the right team but those kind of guys arent highly coveted. He is not a great shooter but that is something that can be improved.

I actually like mills. At the same time, no one is talking about drafting him with the number 2 or 3 pick. If you based his worth on what he did in the olympics, you woul have him going much higher.

Rubio is being judged on international play. Thats a slippery slope especially for a guy that looks like he may not have the athletic ability to play in the league.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh he was hurt...

Not the whole season. He played 26 games last year and averaged 18 points, four assists, and three turnovers per game while shooting 40% from the field (34% on threes).

The year before that, he averaged 15, three and a half assists, and three turnovers shooting 43% (32%).

Hardly bad numbers for a freshman and then a sophomore but hardly earth moving considering the conference he was playing in and after reading all of his Olympic press, you'd think he would be much better. The Olympics tend to do this with guys a lot. The Lakers took a guy off the Chinese Olympic team that can't get off their developmental squad. Some years back, I remember Andrew Gaze would kill people in the Olympics but was just an average college player. Does anyone believe Oscar Schmidt could have come to the NBA scoring 35 a game?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Not the whole season. He played 26 games last year and averaged 18 points, four assists, and three turnovers per game while shooting 40% from the field (34% on threes).

The year before that, he averaged 15, three and a half assists, and three turnovers shooting 43% (32%).

Hardly bad numbers for a freshman and then a sophomore but hardly earth moving considering the conference he was playing in and after reading all of his Olympic press, you'd think he would be much better. The Olympics tend to do this with guys a lot. The Lakers took a guy off the Chinese Olympic team that can't get off their developmental squad. Some years back, I remember Andrew Gaze would kill people in the Olympics but was just an average college player. Does anyone believe Oscar Schmidt could have come to the NBA scoring 35 a game?

And remember when everyone was expecting Carlos Arroyo to become the next top point guard after he led Puerto Rico to the blowout win over the US in the '04 Olympics?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

And remember when everyone was expecting Carlos Arroyo to become the next top point guard after he led Puerto Rico to the blowout win over the US in the '04 Olympics?

Who was expecting that? He wasn't even drafted.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Not the whole season. He played 26 games last year and averaged 18 points, four assists, and three turnovers per game while shooting 40% from the field (34% on threes).

The year before that, he averaged 15, three and a half assists, and three turnovers shooting 43% (32%).

Hardly bad numbers for a freshman and then a sophomore but hardly earth moving considering the conference he was playing in and after reading all of his Olympic press, you'd think he would be much better. The Olympics tend to do this with guys a lot. The Lakers took a guy off the Chinese Olympic team that can't get off their developmental squad. Some years back, I remember Andrew Gaze would kill people in the Olympics but was just an average college player. Does anyone believe Oscar Schmidt could have come to the NBA scoring 35 a game?

I'm not sure I am understanding using Patty Mills as an example of Euros (or Aussies in his case) not being good players? Mills was the best player in his league. He is a 6 foot 175 pound point guard. What exactly was he supposed to do? You do realize that they play 40 minute games in the NCAA? Do I have to start using Euro/foreigners that have been lights out? Pau, Dirk, Drazen Petrovic, Peja, Tony Parker, Hedo, Detleff, Manu, etc?

Rubio is a 6'5' point guard who excelled playing in professional leagues and the Olympics at age 17 and 18. Who else does that? Think he'd be heavily recruited if he decided to go to a US college this year? To say that the Olympics are exhibitions is ridiculous unless you didnt bother watching them. Hell Kobe played harder there than he did most of the regular season.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm not sure I am understanding using Patty Mills as an example of Euros (or Aussies in his case) not being good players? Mills was the best player in his league. He is a 6 foot 175 pound point guard. What exactly was he supposed to do? You do realize that they play 40 minute games in the NCAA? Do I have to start using Euro/foreigners that have been lights out? Pau, Dirk, Drazen Petrovic, Peja, Tony Parker, Hedo, Detleff, Manu, etc?

Rubio is a 6'5' point guard who excelled playing in professional leagues and the Olympics at age 17 and 18. Who else does that? Think he'd be heavily recruited if he decided to go to a US college this year? To say that the Olympics are exhibitions is ridiculous unless you didnt bother watching them. Hell Kobe played harder there than he did most of the regular season.

Execelled? He didnt even start most of the time. The only reason he got big time in the olympics is because Fernandez got injured.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Yes, all of those things you say about Parker are true except they did know what they had right away. They knew they didnt have to trade up to draft him because 2001 was before drafting euros was really in vogue and in fact he was the third french guy drafted...ever. Pop stuck with him because he knew that he had great talent.

Rubio is a "ball handling genius"? yes, he showed stretches in international play but its a different game here. We will see. All the scouts and everyone on here agree with you so I realize my view is somewhat contrarian. To me, I think these people are insane.

Pop stuck with him because he was young.
And because he was the fastest guy in the NBA.
Is that Talent...? Parker made himself talented. He had no perimeter
game and was very weak going to the basket. Both
of those things have changed through very hard work.
And because of proper strength training he is actually strong now.


I dont know what the scouts say. Seriously I read nothing
about the guy except they say he is good. I watched the kid
on u-tube against inferior competition, and of course the Olympics.

He has very good, BIG, quick hands. He stops and starts, changes
direction dramatically WITH the ball with purpose (not playground,
I now wish to do a dance in front of you and go nowhere).
He sees the entire floor.
He can go to the hole.
He can intiate or direct an offense.

Can he fail? Of course. With the wrong team and wrong
coach asked to do the wrong things, sure he can fail.
Sap the confidence of a player like this, and sure you can
kill him. He is not a great athlete that will beat you physically.
He will have to beef up also imo, the first year will probably
be tough on him physically. More so than the older players
that are physically strong.

[dalakhani]

[quote=pgardn]Pop stuck with him because he was young.
And because he was the fastest guy in the NBA.
Is that Talent...? Parker made himself talented. He had no perimeter
game and was very weak going to the basket. Both
of those things have changed through very hard work.
And because of proper strength training he is actually strong now.


QUOTE]

tony parker is "strong"? P, you have to stop. Tony parker was a first round draft pick before it was fashionable to find the next great euro. He wasnt just fast. You can't start 72 games for a playoff team and just be "fast". Just stop. Please.

Tony Parker, or anyone else for that matter, can't "make himself talented". You either have it or you don't. You can develop talent and thus make talent manifest but it has to be there from the start. If you start 72 games your rookie year as a 1st round draft choice, you obviously have talent and you obviously have developed it to some degree.

Lets just talk about something else.

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Pop stuck with him because he was young.
And because he was the fastest guy in the NBA.
Is that Talent...? Parker made himself talented. He had no perimeter
game and was very weak going to the basket. Both
of those things have changed through very hard work.
And because of proper strength training he is actually strong now.


QUOTE]

tony parker is "strong"? P, you have to stop. Tony parker was a first round draft pick before it was fashionable to find the next great euro. He wasnt just fast. You can't start 72 games for a playoff team and just be "fast". Just stop. Please.

Tony Parker, or anyone else for that matter, can't "make himself talented". You either have it or you don't. You can develop talent and thus make talent manifest but it has to be there from the start. If you start 72 games your rookie year as a 1st round draft choice, you obviously have talent and you obviously have developed it to some degree.

Lets just talk about something else.

oh good lord...
ok you are right, talented, I used it improperly.

Tony Parker made himself the best player the
currently have Spurs.
Hows that...

pgardn: And yes he is strong.

Dala: but he did not win the Iron man competition.
Glen Davis is strong, not Parker.

Pgardn: He is basketball strong in that he can now physically
bully to the basket, get fouled while making the basket, and
then step up to the foul line for and one...

I use the English language very poorly over the internet.
I rush, and I dont care much how I present arguments.
I will try to go slowly and show selectivity with my
sports vocabulary. I also spell very poorly, chop up sentences,
and generally run on. Too much math in my head.
A sickness that comes with Physics. I actually use to be
able to see words in my head spelled out. No more.

[dalakhani]

[quote=pgardn]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

oh good lord...
ok you are right, talented, I used it improperly.

Tony Parker made himself the best player the
currently have Spurs.
Hows that...

pgardn: And yes he is strong.

Dala: but he did not win the Iron man competition.
Glen Davis is strong, not Parker.

Pgardn: He is basketball strong in that he can now physically
bully to the basket, get fouled while making the basket, and
then step up to the foul line for and one...

I use the English language very poorly over the internet.
I rush, and I dont care much how I present arguments.
I will try to go slowly and show selectivity with my
sports vocabulary. I also spell very poorly, chop up sentences,
and generally run on. Too much math in my head.
A sickness that comes with Physics. I actually use to be
able to see words in my head spelled out. No more.

Fair enough. Touche. Any way you cut it, Parker has been a wonderful player.

We will see about your boy Rubio. The crow will be on the plate for someone to eat come fall.