Examiner's Schwab assails Bay Meadows 'Development' Co.

[pointman]

Roosevelt Raceway highlights why demolishing tracks and building certainly is not always a good thing. Today where it used to stand are a bunch of stores that just duplicate the bunch of stores within a few miles of the area, a mall about a mile away from one of the biggest malls on long island that is headlined by a company (Fortunoff) which has gone out of business and has nothing you really can't get at the Roosevelt Field Mall or locally, and a housing project which sits empty 20 years after the destruction due to the greed of its developers. It has also had the effect of bringing more traffic to an area which the last thing the area needs is more traffic.

The author of the article makes a lot of sense, just because the land is there doesn't mean that one has to put up commercial businesses, housing and a park. Who needs another park anyway?

[freddymo]

Yeah Steve they invented stuff at Bay Meadows that greatly helped the game..We all know about the photo finish camera etc. terriffic. Can you at least recognize the Bay Meadows was a failing business? Can you at least represent that the last 15 years of racing there was VERY below average. Can you speak to the crappy attendance and low handle because the product sucked.


I live near Freehold Raceway.. I remember when Niatross was there for the Dancer and they had 20k in attendance. Does this mean the place should stay opened for racing? There are 500 people there sometimes the place is devoid of patrons.. So because Freehold was an immensely important Standardbred track the owners are obligated to operate? Get Real, Wake Up the world changes and most importantly understand that nobody sells horses that make them tons of money to the kill pen for .30 a pound. And nobody demolishes thriving business because they can't stand the success. Bay Meadows is no more because the product didn't cut it, regardless of there 1934 starting gate implementation or Seabiscuit's great runs. Who the Fcuk cares that they invented the Daily Double there in 1947. They had 5 horse fields with 2 horses that could win for years.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Yeah Steve they invented stuff at Bay Meadows that greatly helped the game..We all know about the photo finish camera etc. terriffic. Can you at least recognize the Bay Meadows was a failing business? Can you at least represent that the last 15 years of racing there was VERY below average. Can you speak to the crappy attendance and low handle because the product sucked.


I live near Freehold Raceway.. I remember when Niatross was there for the Dancer and they had 20k in attendance. Does this mean the place should stay opened for racing? There are 500 people there sometimes the place is devoid of patrons.. So because Freehold was an immensely important Standardbred track the owners are obligated to operate? Get Real, Wake Up the world changes and most importantly understand that nobody sells horses that make them tons of money to the kill pen for .30 a pound. And nobody demolishes thriving business because they can't stand the success. Bay Meadows is no more because the product didn't cut it, regardless of there 1934 starting gate implementation or Seabiscuit's great runs. Who the Fcuk cares that they invented the Daily Double there in 1947. They had 5 horse fields with 2 horses that could win for years.

I understood the progress and change aspect of this when the BMDC foreshadowed the closing. That was one thing... But the way things have turned out is quite another. The core point of Schwab's piece is that the track operating was preferable to what they have now. And there is no argument to be made against his rationale. The employment and tax generation for the community should simply be shrugged off? If the development project languishes for another 5 years, what then? Why was it so urgent to level the facility? And the same thing is going to happen in Inglewood.

[freddymo]

California has NO horses so why do you need so many tracks? I realize people will lose jobs and traditions will be silienced but it is because there isn't the racing stock to fill races at so many tracks. Too much capacity requires either selling more to fill it or cutting back. It really isn't very complicated, its just disheartening.

Bay Meadows wasn't making money because it's product was horrible. The BS that subsquently happened is not what racing needs to focus on and "we" are in no position to be pissed. IF the product/industry had its act together none of the rubble would be there.

Most likely the economy had a bunch to do with the development issues.. Hopefully those are short term.. I love racing not malls but I certainly get that 5 horse fields on prime real estate isnt a good business model and so should you. Perhap if you took a stance that begged for fewer tracks and fewer dates racing could start to build a strong foundation.Then racing might have a chance to thrive. Instead you focus on rubble from a track that hadn't had a successful meet in years, save Art Sherman and Russell Baze's prospective.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Most likely the economy had a bunch to do with the development issues.. Hopefully those are short term.. I love racing not malls but I certainly get that 5 horse fields on prime real estate isnt a good business model and so should you. Perhap if you took a stance that begged for fewer tracks and fewer dates racing could start to build a strong foundation.Then racing might have a chance to thrive. Instead you focus on rubble from a track that hadn't had a successful meet in years, save Art Sherman and Russell Baze's prospective.

You have a galling predilection for putting words into my mouth. I'm not focusing on the rubble. I brought the piece to people's attention because the Hollywood Park situation involving the same management group is in its' critical stages. Like Bay Meadows, Hollywood doesn't need to be razed.

The scenario in California is complex because of the tremendous infighting that has gone on with the CTBA and TOC, et al. As I've said before, I appreciate the positives fewer racing dates and venues could afford the game. You seem to love throwing the rocks but have no viable plan to implement.

Oh... and I doubt you realize that your approach to things would have resulted in the abandonment of racing at Saratoga in the '60's when the meet was a money loser and viewed as a drain on resources by almost everyone involved in New York racing. At which point the track would most likely have been sold to developers and leveled for 'progress' since the track lost money and hadn't run a successful meet in years. Whoops...

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You have a galling predilection for putting words into my mouth. I'm not focusing on the rubble. I brought the piece to people's attention because the Hollywood Park situation involving the same management group is in its' critical stages. Like Bay Meadows, Hollywood doesn't need to be razed.

The scenario in California is complex because of the tremendous infighting that has gone on with the CTBA and TOC, et al. As I've said before, I appreciate the positives fewer racing dates and venues could afford the game. You seem to love throwing the rocks but have no viable plan to implement.

Oh... and I doubt you realize that your approach to things would have resulted in the abandonment of racing at Saratoga in the '60's when the meet was a money loser and viewed as a drain on resources by almost everyone involved in New York racing. At which point the track would most likely have been sold to developers and leveled for 'progress' since the track lost money and hadn't run a successful meet in years. Whoops...

You clearly spoke out on the subject yesterday. You voiced your strong distain for the track coming down and the subsequent mess. Never did you suggest the Bay Meadows meet was horrendous and that failure to promote and develop a quality business model and product was the SOLE reason for its demise. Your depiction that you were simply bringing the article to your audience attention is funny. It sounded like your blood pressure was through the roof..lol

Closing Hollywood could have a beneficial effect on the complicated mess in Ca. It cant hurt..As for not having a plan..I think meets need to consolidate period. If friggin Turfway can't stand on its own merit CLOSE IT same for Ellis.. The owners horseman and horses will find there way to another track. That should help make the fields larger and more appealing to the people who bet and fund this game. And then once it consolidates it can become healthy for all.


As for the crystal ball monday morning QB'ing about SPA. Are you suggesting that it wasnt a prudent idea to abandon it in the 60's because you knew it was going to be what it is today, or are you suggesting circumstance and perhaps the special attention that the Whitneys and others gave it drove it to it's pinnacle. Maybe we can get Ms and Ms Whitney to talk up Turfway...lol

Ahem....there, their, they're

It's killing me. My blood pressure is rising from reading this thread.

[Kasept]

I brought up the Schwab piece on air for the same reason: it is directly tied to possible eventualities in Inglewood. And I maintain that an open Bay Meadows beats what you have there right now...

Hollywood Park has been a constant in its' environs for 7+ decades and a vitally important economic bastion to the Inglewood community. I won't go on because you'll simply insert a throwaway punchline about Inglewood here without any real interest or comprehension of what its' destruction will bring to the area.

As for Saratoga, it was forward-thinking Averill Harriman that ensured the perpetuation of the Race Course, not the dribblecup doyen. Not acknowledging the parallels between your consolidation plan and the potential steamrolling of Saratoga in the mid-60's wraps up this interesting conversation for now. I have some work to do before the show...

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by freddymo

California has NO horses so why do you need so many tracks? I realize people will lose jobs and traditions will be silienced but it is because there isn't the racing stock to fill races at so many tracks. Too much capacity requires either selling more to fill it or cutting back. It really isn't very complicated, its just disheartening.

Bay Meadows wasn't making money because it's product was horrible. The BS that subsquently happened is not what racing needs to focus on and "we" are in no position to be pissed. IF the product/industry had its act together none of the rubble would be there.

Most likely the economy had a bunch to do with the development issues.. Hopefully those are short term.. I love racing not malls but I certainly get that 5 horse fields on prime real estate isnt a good business model and so should you. Perhap if you took a stance that begged for fewer tracks and fewer dates racing could start to build a strong foundation.Then racing might have a chance to thrive. Instead you focus on rubble from a track that hadn't had a successful meet in years, save Art Sherman and Russell Baze's prospective.

Funny, I have 4 horses there.

[DerbyCat]

Freddy -

Your argument would be more convincing if you didn't speak in such uninformed extremes:

"Bay Meadows is no more is because there product sucked" It may have "sucked" for you, a gambler who wants large fields for a higher payoff but for those of us in the Bay Area who loved horse racing and own horses it was just fine. Hundreds of folks were employed at the track, thousands came every week to watch the horses run and it may have not have been the same caliber of horses as Kentucky or New York tracks but it was still better than may tracks across America (Fonner Park, Emerald Downs, Arapahoe Park, etc.). Not every town can have a track that has multiple graded stakes races each week (and how many do?).

"California has NO horses so why do you need so many tracks?" Another extreme and a horribly Eastern biases statement, I won't even begin to list the great horses to come out of California. As I'm sure you know, approximately 35,000 thoroughbred foals are registered each year in the U.S. The largest number of foals are born in Kentucky, Florida, and California - where are all of the horses born in California going to race at?

Yes, we all want the "product" to be good but please understand that there is more to this sport and tracks like Bay Meadows than just the handle and what's good for the gambler. Many people made a living working at Bay Meadows, many horses were cared for by professional trainers at this track, and many, many people enjoyed their time spent attending races at this track (some more than others and unfortunately not enough) and now they miss it. This article (and some of Steve's ire, I believe) was meant to make folks that don't care, or people that only care about how much they could make betting it, aware of just how significant this loss is. People care that it died, and they don't understand why others don't care as well.

OK, I'll get off the soapbox now... and get ready to be attacked

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Freddy -

Your argument would be more convincing if you didn't speak in such uninformed extremes:

"Bay Meadows is no more is because there product sucked" It may have "sucked" for you, a gambler who wants large fields for a higher payoff but for those of us in the Bay Area who loved horse racing and own horses it was just fine. Hundreds of folks were employed at the track, thousands came every week to watch the horses run and it may have not have been the same caliber of horses as Kentucky or New York tracks but it was still better than may tracks across America (Fonner Park, Emerald Downs, Arapahoe Park, etc.). Not every town can have a track that has multiple graded stakes races each week (and how many do?).

"California has NO horses so why do you need so many tracks?" Another extreme and a horribly Eastern biases statement, I won't even begin to list the great horses to come out of California. As I'm sure you know, approximately 35,000 thoroughbred foals are registered each year in the U.S. The largest number of foals are born in Kentucky, Florida, and California - where are all of the horses born in California going to race at?

Yes, we all want the "product" to be good but please understand that there is more to this sport and tracks like Bay Meadows than just the handle and what's good for the gambler. Many people made a living working at Bay Meadows, many horses were cared for by professional trainers at this track, and many, many people enjoyed their time spent attending races at this track (some more than others and unfortunately not enough) and now they miss it. This article (and some of Steve's ire, I believe) was meant to make folks that don't care, or people that only care about how much they could make betting it, aware of just how significant this loss is. People care that it died, and they don't understand why others don't care as well.

OK, I'll get off the soapbox now... and get ready to be attacked

I never attack its a forum to express opinions and share thoughts.

Bay Meadows had embarrassing small fields. It simply wasn't a good product. I guess if you raced there or worked there its demise comes as a blow. As an owner you can race elsewhere. I have a NYBred that hopefully will start in a week or so. Of course I would like him to be good enough to race in NY (not Fiinger Lakes) but he will have to race where it makes financial sense.
The folks that worked at Bay Meadows were unfortuate to have to work at a place that was UNSUCCESSFUL. This is no defferent then when someone works for a MFG. company that fails..It sucks but this is life.

As for California and were are the people going to race.. What horses? Have you scene the entry's at Hollywood? Other then the state bred races the fields are 4 to 6 horses, that is not OK.. So I guess the answer to your question where are they going to race is best answered with where the F are they racing now? Disney?

Unfortuately unsuccessful business's fail and when they do folks get hurt. The fact that the track should be treated differently then a printing company or a garbage collection business is just unfair. When the printer goes out of business the good folks that work for printer lose there job and need to find one at another printer. You know Bay Meadows goes out so you get a job at Santa Anita or a riding school or you change careers. Just because
it was a nice place doesnt exclude it from the same economic issues that face other business.. Of course you could have cured everything with slots..lol

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pointman

Roosevelt Raceway highlights why demolishing tracks and building certainly is not always a good thing. Today where it used to stand are a bunch of stores that just duplicate the bunch of stores within a few miles of the area, a mall about a mile away from one of the biggest malls on long island that is headlined by a company (Fortunoff) which has gone out of business and has nothing you really can't get at the Roosevelt Field Mall or locally, and a housing project which sits empty 20 years after the destruction due to the greed of its developers. It has also had the effect of bringing more traffic to an area which the last thing the area needs is more traffic.

The author of the article makes a lot of sense, just because the land is there doesn't mean that one has to put up commercial businesses, housing and a park. Who needs another park anyway?

The Roosevelt Raceway thing was criminal. A few "horseman" got the town to issue tax free bonds to buy the place with the pledge to keep it as a racetrack. But almost as soon as they took control they began cutting costs and staff and made it as unprofitable as they could to cover their tracks in order to declare it too unprofitable to continue and sell to developers for a lot more than they purchased it for. It was tied up in court for years but in the end they made out like bandits.