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#1
05-24-2009, 07:43 PM
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Way to go Steve!
 
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#2
05-24-2009, 08:22 PM
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The BCC is the thing that needs to change, in my estimation.
Should be 12-furlongs instead of ten Absurd that we have three-year-olds lugging 126 for 12f in early June while older dirt runners are never asked to compete at such a distance ... and rarely carry that much weight.
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#3
05-24-2009, 10:06 PM
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Quarter horse Wayne is hardly the sort of person I would take advice from about classic-distance racing. He is part of the problem; it was during his time at the top of the training stats that we saw the furlongs shaved from many major races - the Woodward, the Meadowlands Cup, the Monmouth H (whatever they are calling it these days), the Super Derby, the Swaps S, the Strub S - all once 10f stakes races that have been emasculated down to distances that a miler can handle. Why were they shortened? One reason was that 'people' complained and didn't enter their horses; was one of the 'people' named D. Wayne? I wonder.
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#4
05-24-2009, 10:55 PM
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I agree with Lukas 100% here and have felt that way for years.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#5
05-24-2009, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Lukas won the Strub the last time it was run at 10f, with Victory Speech. Victory Speech also won the Swaps Stakes, giving Lukas back-to-back winners of that race after Thunder Gulch won the year before. Cat Thief also won it for him, while Grand Slam, Prince Of Thieves, and Corporate Report all placed 2nd. In the last 28 runnings there have only been 2 renewals of the Woodward run at 10f. The last 2 times the Meadowlands Cup was run at 10f, Lukas had Slew City Slew in the race. He placed both times. He also won it with Twilight Agenda. The Iselin hasn't been run at 10f for over 30 years. Lukas has sent Lady's Secret, Gulch, Serena's Song, and Farma Way to the post for that race. In 2 of the last 3 runnings of the Super Derby at the distance of 10f, Lukas trained the runner-up (AP Arrow, Commendable). He also won it with Editor's Note when it was run at 10f.
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#6
05-24-2009, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#7
05-25-2009, 12:10 AM
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I can't believe I actually agree with Dwayne about this. The breed has changed and its time for the sport to change with it especially on the biggest stage.
How relevant is a 12f dirt race for 3 year olds or for that matter any horse? There is no chance that they will ever run it again and a vast majority werent bred to do it anyway so what does it prove?
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#8
05-25-2009, 01:54 AM
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 Drat, I hate it when that happens! The Mt. Everest analogy is so appropriate. If you want to climb a shorter mountain to make it easier, fine, but don't expect the same accolades for doing it.If people want to run their horses in shorter races, do it, and maybe, just maybe, we would stop having full fields in the TC races--save them for the horses that can actually get the job done and if nobody enters, you'll get your wish for change. People were climbing over each other to get in the Derby and Preakness with a large number going to the Belmont this year. You can't have your prestigious cake and eat it too. The point is they should be one of the hardest if not the hardest things to do in this sport. We haven't had a TC winner in decades and I say good--if mediocrity is what they want to celebrate, then count me out. You want to be a champion? Run like one.
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#9
05-25-2009, 04:55 AM
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The training changed because of the value of the animals involved, trainers cautiousness with them due to their value, and ownerships' need for a return on the much greater investment(s) involved. You don't see Neil Howard, John Shirreffs, and Shug McGaughey having trouble developing horses as an example, because with the owners they are associated with, there is no urgency to earn back what's been invested within year one of the owner's horses on the racetrack. The Belmont and similar classic distance events are relevant because identifying horses that can excel at those distances are harbingers of the traits the breeding side of the game is supposed to be seeking. The great mystery from the people saying the race distances should be shortened, is that if you do, you only serve to further enhance the sprint and middle distance sire types that are exactly the ones alledgedly 'weakening the breed'. A.P. Indy is the predominant sire of this generation. Which two wins of his confirmed his attributes as a future sire? The Belmont and BC Classic. In the meantime, in the last two sophomore seasons, Smooth Air and Musket Man have demonstrated perfectly that endurance/stamina are completely obtainable from any sprint-pedigreed horse. If you train them old school, long and slow, supposedly fragile 6f horses bred to go short can magically go 8.5-10f. As a result of the methods of old style training by Bennie Stutts and Derek Ryan, those two have succeeded at distances no one thought they could possibly 'get'. Screwing around with the Triple Crown distances, and spacing, would be a guaranteed road to ruin for the breed for racing.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984. Last edited by Kasept : 05-25-2009 at 08:09 AM.
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