Dear Dubai apologists...

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Well I'm a little late to the party but figured you'd have started a thread so here i am.

I was wrong, played both, congrats to anyone who had the winner. I sure as hell didn't.

Not making excuses but Desert Party to have surgery...

http://www.godolphin.com/NewsArticle.aspx?id=4380

I think it's a lot easier to say who won't hit the board in a field of 20 than who will but whatever.

I was wrong... there you go.

They're both pretty nice horses though. I'm still a fan of both.

I'm with you. I never thought they should be favored, but I thought they were very good horses, each with about a 15-1 chance to win. If they send two this nice over again next year, I'll be glad to bet them at 20-1.

--Dunbar

[Danzig]

desert party is going to have surgery to remove a chip. they say they don't know when it occured, but that it did have an impact on his derby run.

if they don't know when it occurred, how do they know it impacted the race?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

desert party is going to have surgery to remove a chip. they say they don't know when it occured, but that it did have an impact on his derby run.

if they don't know when it occurred, how do they know it impacted the race?

I would assume that it didnt happen after the race?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would assume that it didnt happen after the race?

what if it was two starts ago? three? just seems that people don't go over a horse with a fine toothed comb til they lose. war emblem ran with chips, so did mineshaft. didn't rachel not vet out because of a chip?

i just think it's interesting they say they don't know when it occured-so how do you know when it had an affect?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

what if it was two starts ago? three? just seems that people don't go over a horse with a fine toothed comb til they lose. war emblem ran with chips, so did mineshaft. didn't rachel not vet out because of a chip?

i just think it's interesting they say they don't know when it occured-so how do you know when it had an affect?

Obviously it didn't show outward effects till afterwards so it would be logical to assume it happened in the race. Surely you understand that a chip can vary in seriousness depending on location, size, shape, etc.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Obviously it didn't show outward effects till afterwards so it would be logical to assume it happened in the race. Surely you understand that a chip can vary in seriousness depending on location, size, shape, etc.

yes, i know. i found their wordplay more interesting than anything i suppose.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yes, i know. i found their wordplay more interesting than anything i suppose.

As bad as some of the others ran I am surprised he is the only one injured coming out of the race.

[Cannon Shell]

Not sure why people who dont actually spend any money buying horses or trying to win races feel the need to knock those that do regardless of the amount of money spent. I doubt that Sheik Mo loses any sleep over not winning the Derby or that you find amusement in it. As proven again this year it is sometimes a fluky race that produces strange results.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not sure why people who dont actually spend any money buying horses or trying to win races feel the need to knock those that do regardless of the amount of money spent. I doubt that Sheik Mo loses any sleep over not winning the Derby or that you find amusement in it. As proven again this year it is sometimes a fluky race that produces strange results.

you're going to be accused of being a sycophant and apologist shortly.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you're going to be accused of being a sycophant and apologist shortly.

I bet Regal Ransom. Dummy may also be appropriate.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I bet Regal Ransom. Dummy may also be appropriate.

i thought his chances were improved when i saw it had rained, but that track was a mess.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

A) The need to knock someone spending what is considered to be an exorbitant amount of money (relatively) on yearlings, two-year-olds in training, and on purchases of stylish two-year-old maiden winners is the "Yankees Syndrome," and as a baseball fan, you know what I mean. To me, if Godolphin merely outlasts others at the sales -- and overwhelms those with two-year-olds maiden winners unable to resist, which, according to here, is the entirety of the horse-owning world -- then it is bound to win the Derby sometime, and the accomplishment is diminished.

B) If Shake Mo doesn't lose sleep over not winning the Derby, then he has done a tremendous job of conning the world-wide racing media into believing that he is a horseman of the finest order. If that is not the case, then perhaps the world-wide racing media has engaged in a collective act of journalistic license. For years now, I have read that the Derby and the Melbourne Cup have been Shake Mo's obsession as an owner.

C) I am not a fan of the Godolphin crowd for multiple reasons, but I do not see it as unreasonable for those to jump on it for the amount of money that it has spent in pursuit of the Derby. If only those who spend even remotely similar amounts of money than that of Godolphin could comment on its spending to win a Derby.. well, then no one could comment.

A) Winning the Derby cant be diminished unless they buy all the starters (which isnt that impossible)
B) While the horseracing media isnt that hard to fool I would think that if Sheik Mo was THAT determined to simply win the Derby he wouldnt shuffle all the horses off to Dubai every winter.
C) And no one said that a person has to spend as much as Godolphin but to simply buy a horse to see how hard it is to win any race let alone the Derby. I am no great fan of the Arabs or their methods (unless I had a good one to sell) but to simply criticize because they spent a lot of money is a bit myopic. That money they spend goes a long ways to keep a lot of bills paid and people s heads above water.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I guess we are doing our "ABC's" tonight:

A) So if not buying all of the Derby starters, at what point can it be diminished? Isn't there is a certain point at which reasonable, intelligent people can conclude with some believability that a Derby has been "bought?" For me, I know that it is not 20.
B) I need a refresher: how many of the Godolphin starters have not been prepared in Dubai? Am I wrong, but haven't Godolphin started all of its Derby starters in Dubai? Shake Mo has a program, and he is going to stick to it.
C) It's not myopic if we are not considering how much Godolphin spends to win the Derby. Again, it's back to the "Yankees Syndrome." For instance, how much of a genius was Ahmed Salman for buying War Emblem in April? That is only one example, but it serves the point.

If you cant see by now that it is pretty much impossible to buy the Derby there is nothing that I can say to make you not believe that. They could have bought IWR and FF the day before the race and still not hit the board let alone win. There is a certain amount of luck needed to win the Derby and you cant buy that. It would be almost impossible to diminish winning the Derby.

Obviously Sheik Mo's plan takes preference over winning. He may be obsessed with winning 'his' way but again i doubt that he is devastated over another loss.

Again what difference does it make how much one spends? Did Thunder Gulch's win feel like it was bought? Coolmore spends a whole lot more than anyone else not from Dubai. Are the Phipps laughable because they have never won the Derby despite having the best American broodmare band over the last 40 years?

So the whole theory is that if they win it is diminished because they spend so much but if they dont win they are assholes? Maybe they arent a warm, fuzzy story but the fact they havent won shows the challenge of the sport and why it attracts so many diverse people from all walks of life. Jesus i sound like a freakin liberal...

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you cant see by now that it is pretty much impossible to buy the Derby there is nothing that I can say to make you not believe that. They could have bought IWR and FF the day before the race and still not hit the board let alone win. There is a certain amount of luck needed to win the Derby and you cant buy that. It would be almost impossible to diminish winning the Derby.

Obviously Sheik Mo's plan takes preference over winning. He may be obsessed with winning 'his' way but again i doubt that he is devastated over another loss.

Again what difference does it make how much one spends? Did Thunder Gulch's win feel like it was bought? Coolmore spends a whole lot more than anyone else not from Dubai. Are the Phipps laughable because they have never won the Derby despite having the best American broodmare band over the last 40 years?

So the whole theory is that if they win it is diminished because they spend so much but if they dont win they are assholes? Maybe they arent a warm, fuzzy story but the fact they havent won shows the challenge of the sport and why it attracts so many diverse people from all walks of life. Jesus i sound like a freakin liberal...

Too funny!

--Dunbar

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Cannon and myself will be going to Georgia to campaign for Neal Horsley very shortly.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Like Lord Helmet said (Spaceballs): "I can't believe you man, you fell for the oldest trick in the book!"

May the Schwartz be with you

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

If his plan obviously takes precedence over winning to you, don't you think that it should have been obvious to him?

No.

Yet again, that has been the mantra against the Yankees, for great instance, over the last 12 years. I think that belief has taken a strong root, and as a Yankee fan, I can't dismiss it.

Hank Stienbrenner did once run Kinsman farm.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Cardus

B) If Shake Mo doesn't lose sleep over not winning the Derby, then he has done a tremendous job of conning the world-wide racing media into believing that he is a horseman of the finest order. If that is not the case, then perhaps the world-wide racing media has engaged in a collective act of journalistic license. For years now, I have read that the Derby and the Melbourne Cup have been Shake Mo's obsession as an owner.

The US writers that cover such things have told you (and all of us) that Sh. Mo is obsessed with winning the Derby but it is probably not true. Does he want to win it? Yes. Is it what he lives and breathes for? NO!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Linny

The US writers that cover such things have told you (and all of us) that Indian Charlie is obsessed with Scat Porn but it is probably not true. Does he want to download it? Yes. Is it what he lives and breathes for? NO!

FTFY

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

FTFY

Yeah, at least my computer doesn't have 2500 viruses and have some robotic sounding German chick screaming at me when I boot up.

How many times must I repeat myself. NO MORE PORN SITES!

And when it happens yet again in another week don't go blaming the software I told you to use that successfully cleaned it up the last time.

To prevent these future 'between the keyboard and chair' errors:

1. Stop going to your fetish porn sites.
2. Learn to use bit torrents. Maybe Pants here can explain how.