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  #1  
Old 09-07-2006, 05:20 PM
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SentToStud SentToStud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
....
I'm trying to figure out the logic of Joel's post and drawing a blank.
If a guy is a "magician" with a horse, and continues to train the horse, why would the same efforts not keep occurring?
It's not hard to figure out what he's insinuating. He's claiming the man doesn't follow the rules. And I don't get that at all. He's supposed to be an up nd coming horse analyst for the FTOBA. How would he look Dutrow (or the Louisiana "Cajun Clan" stewards, etc, etc) he's bashed if and when he gets a chance to interview him?
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2006, 05:24 PM
oracle80
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SentToStud
It's not hard to figure out what he's insinuating. He's claiming the man doesn't follow the rules. And I don't get that at all. He's supposed to be an up nd coming horse analyst for the FTOBA. How would he look Dutrow (or the Louisiana "Cajun Clan" stewards, etc, etc) he's bashed if and when he gets a chance to interview him?
Lansdon has sent the guy a ton of horses, and only one of em has ever won a graded stakes race. I guess lans is gonna pretty pissed off when he finds out that his trainer is a magician and hes only won graded stakes races with one horse. What gives? Guess he must be "cold watering" Lansdon huh?
No more free dinners for Ricky!!!
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2006, 05:24 PM
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dalakhani dalakhani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SentToStud
It's not hard to figure out what he's insinuating. He's claiming the man doesn't follow the rules. And I don't get that at all. He's supposed to be an up nd coming horse analyst for the FTOBA. How would he look Dutrow (or the Louisiana "Cajun Clan" stewards, etc, etc) he's bashed if and when he gets a chance to interview him?
I am not at all dumping on Joel. I remember when Beyer made outright inferences that Scott Lake was cheating a few years back. If im not mistaken, he later apologized.
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  #4  
Old 09-07-2006, 05:25 PM
oracle80
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalakhani
I am not at all dumping on Joel. I remember when Beyer made outright inferences that Scott Lake was cheating a few years back. If im not mistaken, he later apologized.
I thought he'd accused everyone of cheating except Mother Theresa.
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2006, 05:27 PM
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Sightseek Sightseek is offline
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Seriously...I recall reading an article by him that said something about how none of the normal big guys haven't won a Derby in several years ever since they started better drug testing/security.
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2006, 05:29 PM
oracle80
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
Seriously...I recall reading an article by him that said something about how none of the normal big guys haven't won a Derby in several years ever since they started better drug testing/security.
Could it be because they haven't had any Point Givens or Thunder gulch's in there? nah, couldnt be that could it? That would make too much ****ing sense.
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2006, 06:03 PM
BellamyRd.
 
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enjoyed this piece, thought I'd share:


Bellamy Road, by Michael Ventura, copyright May 4th, 2005



Bellamy Road was bred by Diane Cotter of Ocala , Florida by breeding her winning homebred mare Hurry Home Hilary to Concerto, a stallion standing for only $3,500 at the time. Diane Cotter was repaid for her efforts by selling him as a 2yo in training for $87,000 to George Steinbrenner at OBS and he has been repaid in turn by possessing a racehorse who has won 5 of 6 career starts, with the most impressive thus far being his surreally easy looking stakes record breaking and Track Record equaling score in the $1 Million Wood Memorial (GI).



An interesting thing about Bellamy Road is that he comes from a very young sequence of dams (his 1st was 7 when she foaled him, his 2nd was 5 when she foaled his dam, his 3rd was 4 when she foaled his 2nd, etc); and this may very well help explain why there are no big ones save him under his first 3 dams yet.



Once we reach the 4th dam however, you get to a Cynthia Phipps bred filly named Arabian Dancer, a Matron (GI) placed daughter of Damascus and the dam of both the Clark Handicap (G3) Winner and nice sire Out Of Place and the Athenia Handicap (G3) winning filly Lead Kindly Light (ped). Lead Kindly Light is in turn the dam of Cynthia's very nice Sprinter-Miler Gold Fever, a winner of the NYRA Mile (GI). Jackpot, a winner of Gulfstream Park Handicap (G2) out of Out Of Places' full sister Frolic, is the other Graded Stakes Winner under Arabian Dancer.



Arabian Dancer's dam was Ten Cents A Dance, a daughter of Buckpasser and the dam of the Cynthia Phipps homebred mare Versailles Treaty, an excellent daughter of Danzig who won the Alabama (GI), the Test (GI), the Ruffian (GI), and the Gazelle (GI). Versailles Treaty of course became the dam of Saarland .



Ten Cents A Dance was out of a daughter of Native Dancer named Exclusive Dancer, who was a half sister to none other than Affirmed's sire Exclusive Native and the dam of both Travers (GI) Stakes winner and record holder General Assembly and a Multiple G3W daughter of Riva Ridge named Expressive Dancer, who was in turn the dam of Bertram Firestone's Jim Dandy (G2) and Brooklyn Handicap (GI) Winner Chief Honcho and the Seattle Slew broodmare American Dance, who is the dam of the good sire American Chance, who won the Jersey Derby (G2) and Forego (G2) Handicap. Expressive Dancer was also the dam of Chief Honcho's full sister Bright Tiara, the dam of Nanbu Hai (JAP-GI) Winner Gold Tiara.



This is the female line of 1906's champion 2YO Filly and 1907's Co-champion 3YO Filly Court Dress, a Spinaway and Gazelle Winning James R. Keene bred daughter of Disguise who is also the ancestress of an important Canadian sire named Ladder (who died all too young in a barn fire shortly after covering Mintwina to conceive the King's Plate winner Bunty Lawless) and the significant Canadian bred sire Deputy Minister (who was 3x5 to none other than Ladder's son Bunty Lawless and thus linebred 5x6x7 to his 6th dam).



A profoundly important thing about Court Dress is that she's bred on a powerful Formula One Pattern to the Great Matriarch Queen Mary (10-A) through the female lines of her sire Disguise, damsire Hampton, 2nd damsire Breadalbane, and dam Hampton Belle (this making her 4x5x5x6 to her). It should also be noted that both Court Dress and her sire Disguise (who famously conquered the 1900 English Triple Crown Winner Diamond Jubilee in the Jockey Club Stakes) successfully integrated quite possibly the strongest English damline founded in the 19th Century (Queen Mary) with quite possibly the strongest American damline founded in the 19th Century (the Gallopade family of Disguise's sire Domino). This integration was reinforced when Court Dress was bred to Voter, a stallion who effected 4x4 inbreeding to Queen Mary's Prince of Wales Stakes Winning grandson Breadalbane, to create Inaugural. And this integration was reinforced yet further when Inaugural was in turn bred to Peter Pan, a stallion who effected 3x4 inbreeding to Gallopade's legendary descendant Domino, to produce Panoply.



Then Fairy Gold (9-e) got into the act as Panoply was bred to her son Fair Play's son Display to produce the nice filly Parade Girl and Parade Girl was in turn bred to Pilate, a son of Fair Play's half-brother Friar Rock, to produce Good Example. Good Example was thus 3x4 to the great broodmare Fairy Gold.



It is also very important to understand the closely related point that Good Example was bred on a reverse cross of the maternal half-brothers Fair Play and Friar Rock to none other than War Relic, the preserver of the Man O' War male line and the sire of Relic. Also, War Relic has a 2nd dam in Problem who was bred on the exact same Commando/Voter cross as Good Example's 2nd dam Panoply.



A powerful little example of cluster breeding at its finest is what you get when you cross War Relic and Good Example, and I should note here that Good Example's female line descendant Deputy Minister has powerful nicks with War Relic's two strongest sources: His son Relic and his double great-grandson In Reality (who was of course inbred 3x3 to War Relic).



I say this as Deputy Minister and Relic have combined in the first 5 Generations of the Hopeful (GI) and Vosburgh (G2) winner Salt Lake; Salt Lake's Mazarine Breeder's Cup (CAN-GI) Winning Daughter Salty You; the Man O' War (GI) Winner Magistretti; the Champagne (GI) and Hollywood Futurity (GI) Winner Toccet; and the Whitney (GI), Queen's Plate (GI), and BC Classic (GI) Winner Awesome Again.



In the same vein, Deputy Minister also forms a powerful nick with In Reality, who has combined with him in the GIWs Ghostzapper, Halfbridled, Take Charge Lady, House Party, Ten Most Wanted, Midas Eyes and Request For Parole.



This is of especial relevance to the greatness of Bellamy Road as that one traces in the female line to Good Example and is 6x6x8 to War Relic through Concerto's cross of In Reality and Caro's cross of Relic (note also that Bellamy Road's 4th damsire Damascus brings in War Relic's full sister Speed Boat through the female line of his sire Sword Dancer). (Inbreeding to War Relic through In Reality and Relic in the context of a long Good Example female line is a pattern also found in Ghostzapper.)
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2006, 06:05 PM
BellamyRd.
 
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To further hammer home the point about the Good Example descended Deputy Minister and War Relic, we'll also note Deputy Minister has combined with War Relic's Travers Stakes Winning son Battlefield in the 5 Time GIW Silverbulletday, who was the 1998 Eclipse Champion 2YO Filly and 1999 Eclipse Champion 3YO Filly, and with War Relic's daughter En Casserole in the very fast G2W Badge of Silver. Deputy Minister has also combined with War Relic's daughter Ellen's Best (who was actually inbred 1x3 to War Relic and his full sister Speed Boat) in the Four Time G2 winner Flag Down, a quality earner of $1.7 Million who also finished 2nd in the Man O' War (GI), Early Times Turf Classic (GI), and Manhattan Handicap (GI) and 3rd in both the Jockey Club Gold Cup (GI) and BC Turf (GI).



(This comes to a grand total of 13 GIWs, 6 Multiple GIWs, and 4 American Champions crossing Deputy Minister on one side and War Relic on the other.)



Intriguingly, Good Example was bred to Shut Out to produce the next link in the Bellamy Road Chain (this incidentally being where it branches off from the Deputy Minister line): Exclusive, a Alfred G. Vanderbilt bred daughter of Shut Out who was 4x4 to Fair Play, 4x4 to Peter Pan, 4x5 to Rock Sand, and 4x5x5 to Fair Play's dam Fairy Gold (note that Fair Play, Rock Sand, and Fairy Gold are major building blocks of Man O' War and his previously mentioned son War Relic).



The reason in main for this breeding earning a description evincing strong interest on my part is that Exclusive's sire Shut Out was an equivalent to a filly of long ago named Weno: Shut Out being 2x3x4 to Broomstick, Hamburg, and Pennant; and Weno being 2x2x2 to Broomstick, Hamburg, and Pennant's full sister Cherokee Rose.



And of what relevance is this to that which has come before, you ask? Why, Weno was the granddam of War Relic's best son Intent! Thus Intent's sire War Relic was an equivalent to Exclusive's dam Good Example and his granddam Weno was an equivalent to Exclusive's sire Shut Out. A very excellent example of an intricate reverse can thus be seen in the relationship of Exclusive and Intent.



Here I should note that Shut Out and Weno's grandson Intent combined in the horse responsible for the continuation of the In Reality male line forward into present times: his best son Relaunch, as it tends to show the significance of the relationship between Weno and Shut Out.



But the parallels betwixt the Female Family of Bellamy Road and the Male Line of In Reality don't stop there; for Exclusive was bred to Native Dancer to produce Bellamy Road 's 6th dam Exclusive Dancer. This is significant as Native Dancer's dam Geisha was a filly sharing Discovery, Whisk Broom II, and Sweep with Intent's best son Intentionally, who became the sire of In Reality. Thus when we line up Exclusive Dancer and Intentionally we find a complex and intricate relationship involving three sets of overlapping equivalents: Good Example and War Relic, Shut Out and Weno, and Geisha and Intentionally himself.



If we pour it all together in a hodgepodge we find that Exclusive Dancer is 3x4x4x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x6x6 to Discovery, Display, Fair Play, Friar Rock, Whisk Broom II, Broomstick, Sweep, Peter Pan, Royal Rose, and Rock Sand.



And Intentionally is 2x4x4x4x4x5x5x5x5x6x6 to Discovery, Whisk Broom II, Fair Play, Friar Rock, Balancoire, Rock Sand, Hamburg , and Sweep.



As Intentionally was the Champion Sprinter of 1959 and a one-time world record holder for 8f (1:33.1), and Exclusive Dancer was a Miss Florida winner and good broodmare; we may say that this build-up/cluster of ancestors did alright by both of them and that combining the two in one pedigree would be desirable by my theories.



And combining them has proven successful in both Bellamy Road, who crosses them 4x6 through the female line of his dam and the male line of his sire Concerto's damsire, and a very nice little sprinting filly and earner of over $1.5 Million named Gold Mover, who is by Gold Fever (Bellamy Road's fellow descendant of Exclusive Native's granddaughter Arabian Dancer) and out of a mare by Intentionally's other son of significance besides In Reality: Tentam.
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2006, 05:27 PM
dalakhani's Avatar
dalakhani dalakhani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
I thought he'd accused everyone of cheating except Mother Theresa.
I havent seen any of those others in print. We get the washington post here and I remember reading that article about Lake at Delaware park and going "damn, he sure is making some bold ascertations". At least he apologized although he probably was on to something. Scratch that.
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  #10  
Old 09-08-2006, 01:33 AM
Cunningham Racing
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SentToStud
It's not hard to figure out what he's insinuating. He's claiming the man doesn't follow the rules. And I don't get that at all. He's supposed to be an up nd coming horse analyst for the FTOBA. How would he look Dutrow (or the Louisiana "Cajun Clan" stewards, etc, etc) he's bashed if and when he gets a chance to interview him?
A) You are making insenuations...I'm not...
B) I don't interview people..I'm an Editor, my staff handles any interviews...
C) Storm Flag Flying couldn't warm up Sweet Catomine or the big Unbrilded filly of Mandella's (name escapes my mind) in her prime....
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  #11  
Old 09-08-2006, 01:52 AM
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goingtothewhip goingtothewhip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
A) You are making insenuations...I'm not...
B) I don't interview people..I'm an Editor, my staff handles any interviews...
C) Storm Flag Flying couldn't warm up Sweet Catomine or the big Unbrilded filly of Mandella's (name escapes my mind) in her prime....
Halfbridled
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