Thank You Mine That Bird

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just curious, what about the other horses on the inside that Mine That Bird catapulted by on his way to victory.....why weren't they helped by the rail?

They were just showing the "blimp shot" of the race on the local OTB show. As the field progressed down the backstretch, there were only three horses on the rail: Join in the Dance, who lasted a lot longer than expected; Hold Me Back, who made the only sustained middle move in the race; and Mine That Bird, who was advancing on the rail as the field approached the half mile pole. On the turn the only other horse that dropped down to the rail was Atomic Rain, a horse that even the rail could not assist.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

On the turn the only other horse that dropped down to the rail was Atomic Rain, a horse that even the rail could not assist.

A horse who, bad as he was, on paper looked easily as good as the winner. Why would the rail catapult one and not the other?

I'm just not buying it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the rail hurt, and maybe it helped a little, but the winner RAN......and that's the biggest factor. It was the horse....not the rail and not the rider. Not a criticism of Borel, who is a low percentage jockey, that probably hurts more horses than he helps with his rail riding nonsense, and his act worked yesterday, but let's also not pretend that the rider got in a horse suit and masqueraded himself into the winner's circle.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the rail hurt, and maybe it helped a little, but the winner RAN......and that's the biggest factor. It was the horse....not the rail and not the rider.

I thought you were supposed to be the expert on race set up.

I guess the horse masqueraded as a trips expert and held himself wayyyy off the pace and then gambled that there would be room on the rail and closed inside.


of course the idea that the rail was some kind of conveyor belt is ridiculous

the question is whether they went to fast up front opening the race for a closer and whether he saved ground.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

A horse who, bad as he was, on paper looked easily as good as the winner. Why would the rail catapult one and not the other?

I'm just not buying it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the rail hurt, and maybe it helped a little, but the winner RAN......and that's the biggest factor. It was the horse....not the rail and not the rider. Not a criticism of Borel, who is a low percentage jockey, that probably hurts more horses than he helps with his rail riding nonsense, and his act worked yesterday, but let's also not pretend that the rider got in a horse suit and masqueraded himself into the winner's circle.

I'm not sure that we really disagree that much. I'm not saying that Mine That Bird won the race BECAUSE of a rail bias. A bias is not going to make winners out of all horses, only those that run and are able to make use of the advantageous conditions. Mine That Bird likely won because he liked the off going, and he got a fortuitous trip, and there was not a lot of running going on from the other 18 starters in the field, and the rail was the place to be.

When I conclude that the rail was the place to be yesterday, just take a look at the chart comments on the winners of the dirt races: Raposa "set pace along the inside"; Riley Tucker "set pace along the inside"; Luv Gov "saved ground" and won with an inside-out move; Glenwood Canyon "close up while racing inside"; Accredit "rated vying for the lead near the rail" with My Pal Charlie the only closer to make up ground late - again inside; Four Gifts "angled in" during the first furlong and also won with and inside-out trip. I could go on, but I think you get the point.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'm not sure that we really disagree that much. I'm not saying that Mine That Bird won the race BECAUSE of a rail bias. A bias is not going to make winners out of all horses, only those that run and are able to make use of the advantageous conditions. Mine That Bird likely won because he liked the off going, and he got a fortuitous trip, and there was not a lot of running going on from the other 18 starters in the field, and the rail was the place to be.

When I conclude that the rail was the place to be yesterday, just take a look at the chart comments on the winners of the dirt races: Raposa "set pace along the inside"; Riley Tucker "set pace along the inside"; Luv Gov "saved ground" and won with an inside-out move; Glenwood Canyon "close up while racing inside"; Accredit "rated vying for the lead near the rail" with My Pal Charlie the only closer to make up ground late - again inside; Four Gifts "angled in" during the first furlong and also won with and inside-out trip. I could go on, but I think you get the point.

I'm with you.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by BOMBTHREAT

Still waiting to hear your derby bets.....

[sumitas]

It was odd seeing the crew pulling 2x4s with sand bags on them over the track . This track was not formful. At least not with 20 horses entered . MTB jumped up on it and shocked .

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by sumitas

It was odd seeing the crew pulling 2x4s with sand bags on them over the track . This track was not formful. At least not with 20 horses entered . MTB jumped up on it and shocked .

which is why i think it's funny that the POTN fans are pointing at the race as some indication of what he can do. evidently it proves his prowess, but no one else's.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by BOMBTHREAT

And still waiting......

Funny how as soon as I ask you about your genius plays I can't find you with a posse.

You do know that the guy gives his opinions on a daily basis, right?

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by BOMBTHREAT

And still waiting......

Funny how as soon as I ask you about your genius plays I can't find you with a posse.

Why in the world, unless you have a personal agenda with BTW, would you care what someone plays in a race that you yourself called a toss?

If the race was in your words "a toss", "nothing like the kentucky derby", "like a mountaineer claiming race", "very unusual IYO"
why in ****s name do you care what that guy picked?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Why in the world, unless you have a personal agenda with BTW, would you care what someone plays in a race that you yourself called a toss?

If the race was in your words "a toss", "nothing like the kentucky derby", "like a mountaineer claiming race", "very unusual IYO"
why in ****s name do you care what that guy picked?

you already answered your question.

[chucklestheclown]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

A horse who, bad as he was, on paper looked easily as good as the winner. Why would the rail catapult one and not the other?

I'm just not buying it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the rail hurt, and maybe it helped a little, but the winner RAN......and that's the biggest factor. It was the horse....not the rail and not the rider. Not a criticism of Borel, who is a low percentage jockey, that probably hurts more horses than he helps with his rail riding nonsense, and his act worked yesterday, but let's also not pretend that the rider got in a horse suit and masqueraded himself into the winner's circle.

You people really do go on about nothing. The only paper that matters in racing is the green kind. And Borail did get the Oaks/Derby Double, which was good enough reason for me to bet HIM in the Derby. Might not be sophisticated enough for some, but it worked for my bank account!