Thank You Mine That Bird

[Suffolk Shippers]

Or you can say we were denied a possibly memorable finish by some sh*t horse from New Mexico who rode the bias and the smartest jockey on the track to a win. What's worse a slow race on off going with a fun finish or some horse that no one could identify who won by six or seven lengths?

[ArlJim78]

that win never happens if Borel doesn't take him back and separate from the field. it's gutsy to fall back into what looks like a hopelessly beaten position, but sometimes its the right thing to do. how he manages to find a clear rail path is impressive.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

that win never happens if Borel doesn't take him back and separate from the field. it's gutsy to fall back into what looks like a hopelessly beaten position, but sometimes its the right thing to do. how he manages to find a clear rail path is impressive.

Whoa...don't you know that jockeys have little to nothing to do with the outcome of races???

[Hoist Her Flag]

Because Bill Mott called a POTN a turfer last May when he was barely 2 year olds you just didn't want to see him win. What a loser.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Hoist Her Flag

Because Bill Mott called a POTN a turfer last May when he was barely 2 year olds you just didn't want to see him win. What a loser.

How does this work with your prior post?

Originally Posted by Hoist Her Flag

This is the worst derby ever

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

Whoa...don't you know that jockeys have little to nothing to do with the outcome of races???

well I'd say the majority of the time, they have little to do with it, that's its mainly the horse. but a certain percentage of the time they can make a huge difference.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers

Or you can say we were denied a possibly memorable finish by some sh*t horse from New Mexico who rode the bias and the smartest jockey on the track to a win. What's worse a slow race on off going with a fun finish or some horse that no one could identify who won by six or seven lengths?

What bias....one that helped overmatched horses?

[King Glorious]

Anyone that mentions a bias as the reason this horse won should never be allowed to watch a race again. Any bias there may have been only added to his margin of victory. He would have won that race had he gone around the grandstand. He was much the best today.

[basement bob]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Anyone that mentions a bias as the reason this horse won should never be allowed to watch a race again. Any bias there may have been only added to his margin of victory. He would have won that race had he gone around the grandstand. He was much the best today.

i could not agree more. well said.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What bias....one that helped overmatched horses?

I generally think track bias is overrated, but it seemed that the inside paths were clearly the place to be at Churchill yesterday.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I generally think track bias is overrated, but it seemed that the inside paths were clearly the place to be at Churchill yesterday.

Completely agree, it wasn't inside speed, just inside.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by golfer

Completely agree, it wasn't inside speed, just inside.

Kind of the way the old Keeneland played.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by golfer

Completely agree, it wasn't inside speed, just inside.

Just curious, what about the other horses on the inside that Mine That Bird catapulted by on his way to victory.....why weren't they helped by the rail?

The winner got a 105 Beyer. If a healthy Quality Road and a healthy I Want Revenge had shown up, DrugS would have cashed his exacta, and only been whining that an impossible horse sucked up for third to cost him the tri and super.

The winner saved us from the most mediocre result in, at least, modern Derby history. But, relatively speaking, he still didn't run THAT well. He looked visually impressive, no doubt, but in many ways it was an illusion.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just curious, what about the other horses on the inside that Mine That Bird catapulted by on his way to victory.....why weren't they helped by the rail?

They were just showing the "blimp shot" of the race on the local OTB show. As the field progressed down the backstretch, there were only three horses on the rail: Join in the Dance, who lasted a lot longer than expected; Hold Me Back, who made the only sustained middle move in the race; and Mine That Bird, who was advancing on the rail as the field approached the half mile pole. On the turn the only other horse that dropped down to the rail was Atomic Rain, a horse that even the rail could not assist.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

On the turn the only other horse that dropped down to the rail was Atomic Rain, a horse that even the rail could not assist.

A horse who, bad as he was, on paper looked easily as good as the winner. Why would the rail catapult one and not the other?

I'm just not buying it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the rail hurt, and maybe it helped a little, but the winner RAN......and that's the biggest factor. It was the horse....not the rail and not the rider. Not a criticism of Borel, who is a low percentage jockey, that probably hurts more horses than he helps with his rail riding nonsense, and his act worked yesterday, but let's also not pretend that the rider got in a horse suit and masqueraded himself into the winner's circle.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just curious, what about the other horses on the inside that Mine That Bird catapulted by on his way to victory.....why weren't they helped by the rail?

The winner got a 105 Beyer. If a healthy Quality Road and a healthy I Want Revenge had shown up, DrugS would have cashed his exacta, and only been whining that an impossible horse sucked up for third to cost him the tri and super.

The winner saved us from the most mediocre result in, at least, modern Derby history. But, relatively speaking, he still didn't run THAT well. He looked visually impressive, no doubt, but in many ways it was an illusion.

I thought the rail was the place to be the entire day, not just the Derby. Considering that Borel was able to move up from last on the rail, except for having to leave it to go around Advice, I believe, for the most part, the other horses weren't running on it.


Race 1: Raposa, gate to wire, rail.

Race 2: Riley Tucker, gate to wire, rail.

Race 3: Luv Gov, closed up the inside.

Race 4: Glenwood Canyon, stalking trip from the rail.

Race 6: Accredit, gate to wire, rail.


The best effort yesterday off the rail, in my opinion, was Just Jenda, who ran out of gas late, beaten by Four Gifts, who came up the rail.

[blackthroatedwind]

I hear you, and you have certainly analyzed it FAR better than I have, I just think it detracts a bit from the winner's " performance " to suggest ( not that you were ) that it was a rail driven performance. I had the same discussion with Beyer this morning....and he is on your side.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by golfer

Race 4: Glenwood Canyon, stalking trip from the rail.

Didn't this horse come off the rail before the turn?

Also, the winner of the 12th, I believe, had an inside trip as well.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by golfer

Completely agree, it wasn't inside speed, just inside.

its very rarely speed and not inside, the two are related.

[nomad]

Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers

Or you can say we were denied a possibly memorable finish by some sh*t horse from New Mexico who rode the bias and the smartest jockey on the track to a win. What's worse a slow race on off going with a fun finish or some horse that no one could identify who won by six or seven lengths?

HEY! Don't knock New Mexico. I live here & it IS in the United States.

The problem was that we handicapped like professionals & didn't use the twinza angle. When 2 horses in the race have similar names (Summer Bird, Mine That Bird), one will be in the money.
I forgot about that!

I bet Hold Me Back & Musket Man, & used Pioneer & Papa Clem, did not use FF or the winner.
Oh well

I wonder how much, if any, respect, MTB will get in the Preakness. Musket Man did prove himself to be a solid performer, as did POTN