A Saratoga wrap up, best and worst

[NoCarolinaTony]

Rupert-

Gomez does not move horses up like you think. No Jockey ever does by his or herself. Trainers move up horses and jockeys can lose races with bad decisons, but are NOT the be all end all when choosing who to bet on. Period. Garrett did ride for Pletcher (Circular Quay), Clement, Bin Surror & Godolphin. So he was not getting bad horses and moving them up. He rode many good horses well.

Betting on the Jockey angle in the end is a losing proposition.

NC Tony

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by NoCarolinaTony

Rupert-

Gomez does not move horses up like you think. No Jockey ever does by his or herself. Trainers move up horses and jockeys can lose races with bad decisons, but are NOT the be all end all when choosing who to bet on. Period. Garrett did ride for Pletcher (Circular Quay), Clement, Bin Surror & Godolphin. So he was not getting bad horses and moving them up. He rode many good horses well.

Betting on the Jockey angle in the end is a losing proposition.

NC Tony

In general, I agree with you. At the big tracks, most of the jockeys are decent. If you put any of the top 12 jockeys at Del Mar or Saratoga on the best horse, they are going to win 90% of the time. there isn't any jockey that I won't bet on. In general, I don't really cares who is riding. I just try to bet on the best horse.

In the last 25 years, I've only seen 3 jockeys that actually seem to move some horses way up. Those 3 jocks are Gomez, P Val, and Stevens.

P Val is not as smart as Gomez or Stevens, but horses really seem to run for him. If you have a sprinter that usually goes head and head on the lead with the same horses every race, if you put P Val on the horse, he will probably be able to get clear of the other horses. It's the strangest thing I've ever seen. He can actually get more early speed out of a horse than anyone.

I'm not one to normally talk about jockeys. The only jockey I used to ever talk about was stevens because when he was in his prime, he was by so far the best is was ridiculous. It was like watching Tiger or Michael Jordan or anyone who is dominant in their sport. Gomez is the best jockey I've seen since Stevens. He's almost always in the right spot and he gets more out of a horse than anyone. I normally don't talk about jocks, but this guy is simply in another league. It's so extreme that it's hard not to notice. Its not just a matter of him getting good mounts. Look at his ROI. H's winning on horses at big prices and he does it consistently. Its not a coincidence. He did it last year too. He was winning huge race after huge races on 25-1 shots. He did it on Purge, Taste of Paradise, etc. It's not just a coincidence that these horses move way up for him. It happens over and over and over again. The smart trainers see it. Pletcher and Baffert both know it.

I think if you bet on him blindly in every race at Saratoga, you would have actually made money. That's pretty amazing.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

In general, I agree with you. At the big tracks, most of the jockeys are decent. If you put any of the top 12 jockeys at Del Mar or Saratoga on the best horse, they are going to win 90% of the time. there isn't any jockey that I won't bet on. In general, I don't really cares who is riding. I just try to bet on the best horse.

In the last 25 years, I've only seen 3 jockeys that actually seem to move some horses way up. Those 3 jocks are Gomez, P Val, and Stevens.

P Val is not as smart as Gomez or Stevens, but horses really seem to run for him. If you have a sprinter that usually goes head and head on the lead with the same horses every race, if you put P Val on the horse, he will probably be able to get clear of the other horses. It's the strangest thing I've ever seen. He can actually get more early speed out of a horse than anyone.

I'm not one to normally talk about jockeys. The only jockey I used to ever talk about was stevens because when he was in his prime, he was by so far the best is was ridiculous. It was like watching Tiger or Michael Jordan or anyone who is dominant in their sport. Gomez is the best jockey I've seen since Stevens. He's almost always in the right spot and he gets more out of a horse than anyone. I normally don't talk about jocks, but this guy is simply in another league. It's so extreme that it's hard not to notice. Its not just a matter of him getting good mounts. Look at his ROI. H's winning on horses at big prices and he does it consistently. Its not a coincidence. He did it last year too. He was winning huge race after huge races on 25-1 shots. He did it on Purge, Taste of Paradise, etc. It's not just a coincidence that these horses move way up for him. It happens over and over and over again. The smart trainers see it. Pletcher and Baffert both know it.

I think if you bet on him blindly in every race at Saratoga, you would have actually made money. That's pretty amazing.

Anyone who could get Purge to do that is an angel in my eyes.

That horse was just listless up until Gomez got after that ass and brought him on home. I could actually hear the stallion fee going up when I saw Gomez getting after him through the lane.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Anyone who could get Purge to do that is an angel in my eyes.

That horse was just listless up until Gomez got after that ass and brought him on home. I could actually hear the stallion fee going up when I saw Gomez getting after him through the lane.

The guy just has a gift. He does such a great job and getting horses to relax and to settle into the place that will maximize their effort. Every horse has an ideal pace that they want to run at. It's an extreme example, but you wouldn't want to drop back to dead last by 12 lengths with Henny Hughes. If you did, he wouldn't run as well. By the same token, you woudn't want to gun Circular Quay. He wouldn't run as well if you did. Those are extreme examples. No jockey is going to drop back to dead-last with Henny Hughes and no jockey is going to gun Circular Quay. It's going to be more subtle than that. With Circular Quay, Gomez dropped about 14 lengths back. Any jock would have taken the horse back, but some jocks may have only been 9-10 lengths back. In this case, it wouldn't have mattered. The horse would have still won. He wouldn't have won as easily. He would have probably won by 2-3 lengths instead of 4 1/4 lengths. But if the field was a little tougher, being in the perfect spot could make the difference of winning instead of losing. There will be a lot of races where the top few horses are pretty equally matched and being in the perfect position can make the difference between winning and losing.