4/25 (AQU): Withers S. (Gr. III)

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

We really need to discuss this. When all the other horses were running, this guy was drafting inside. Doesn't it follow that he'd have some run late, since all the others had run before him?

Actually, as the race unfolded, he was held up behind horses, and unable to make a move....while Mr. Fantasy was gaining an insurmountable advantage. The race was basically decided on the turn when he was stymied in traffic.

I'm not saying he is necessarily considerably better than Mr. Fantasy, but given their two different trips, This One's For Phil was the better horse on Saturday.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Actually, as the race unfolded, he was held up behind horses, and unable to make a move....while Mr. Fantasy was gaining an insurmountable advantage. The race was basically decided on the turn when he was stymied in traffic.

I'm not saying he is necessarily considerably better than Mr. Fantasy, but given their two different trips, This One's For Phil was the better horse on Saturday.

I know going into the race that you thought Just A Coincidence had a good shot to run well; I did as well. And, I know that you thought that the pace in the Gotham was slow and probably downgraded MF's performance as a result.

JAC was where you wanted T1s4P to be and he wilted in the stretch; as did Gone Astray, the other horse with JAC. Maybe T1s4P is significantly better than JAC and he'd have been able to run down Mr. Fantasy in the stretch. But, maybe, the reason he was able to run as well as he did late is because he didn't run a lick early, as the others did. While you saw trouble, I saw a horse that never lost momentum and was carried around the track, saving ground, until the stretch. To upgrade his performance is to downgrade the performance of MF. He didn't luck into his 'insurmountable advantage' but ran to it --- and ran the others to the ground while gaining it. And, given the dynamics of the race, one could argue that T1sFP got a perfect trip.

And you did come out for race dynamics over individual trips in the last segment of Trips and Traps, didn't you?

[blackthroatedwind]

The race dynamics were against This One's For Phil. I thought I explained that.

Sorry, but being forced to idle, while trapped, while another horse is gaining an insurmountable advantage, hardly feels like a horse that wasn't compromised.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The race dynamics were against This One's For Phil. I thought I explained that.

Sorry, but being forced to idle, while trapped, while another horse is gaining an insurmountable advantage, hardly feels like a horse that wasn't compromised.

How are the race dynamics against him? The horses that tried to run on the turn backed up. Why do I need to assume that T1sFP wouldn't have done the same, if he were able to bid with them? Does he win or get 2nd under those circumstances or does he back up with the others?

[blackthroatedwind]

You are kidding.....right?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You are kidding.....right?

Your assumption that a horse that didn't run a lick early would've run as well late, had it been allowed to run early, is fallacious. Even the Sartin idiots know this.

[blackthroatedwind]

Sorry, but I think that when a horse is stopped cold, and held up, while trying to rally, and another horse is thus enabled to open a clear lead, along with the troubled horse subsequently making a significant run, that there is a reasonable argument that said troubled horse was best.

This was the case Saturday.

[Sightseek]

The Met Mile is one of the races in consideration for Mr. Fantasy.