Ness barn raided at Tampa

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Same BS as the Levine raid last year at Monmouth Steve?

Hard to say yet... Guess it depends on what they were looking for and if they took blood, etc.. With Levine, they took blood and tested for EPO and struck out. A great number of the nefarious looking performances are coming from simple milkshaking. Tubing isn't needed any more.. they give a paste "bullet" of the bi-carb mixture. They look for some exotic juice when in fact the horses are getting Rolaids...

[freddymo]

I think we should all thank Rene Poulin for bringing milkshaking to TB's from Standardbred's... Can always count on the French Canadians for the good stuff

They won't find anything. He's simply Michael Jordan playing in the special olympics tournament.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I think we should all thank Rene Poulin for bringing milkshaking to TB's from Standardbred's... Can always count on the French Canadians for the good stuff

Yes, like booing our National Anthem at hockey games.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Tubing isn't needed any more.. they give a paste "bullet" of the bi-carb mixture. They look for some exotic juice when in fact the horses are getting Rolaids...

Where do they sell these paste "bullets" at ?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Where do they sell these paste "bullets" at ?

The Bullet Depot DUH?

[Danzig]

bullets r us.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Hard to say yet... Guess it depends on what they were looking for and if they took blood, etc.. With Levine, they took blood and tested for EPO and struck out. A great number of the nefarious looking performances are coming from simple milkshaking. Tubing isn't needed any more.. they give a paste "bullet" of the bi-carb mixture. They look for some exotic juice when in fact the horses are getting Rolaids...

Can these bullets beat the normal milkshaking tests? Tampa has been testing for milkshakes for a few years. They nabbed Don Rice (RIP) more than once with that testing.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Can these bullets beat the normal milkshaking tests? Tampa has been testing for milkshakes for a few years. They nabbed Don Rice (RIP) more than once with that testing.

The theory is that shake users have fine-tuned the bi-carb mix and amounts given to keep the CO2 levels in the horse below the threshold that tests as a milkshake positive. Since horses have widely differing levels of CO2 in their systems, the positive level is quite high. So a horse testing just under the threshold positive level can very well have been been shaked.

A very prominent trainer, who has been around, has told me that he is sure that shakes are the majority of the seemingly outrageous performances we see from certain trainers and certain horses.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

m.m..

[MISTERGEE]

all they will find is some different size shoes, a couple tongue ties, and maybe some differnet bits

[philcski]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

m.m..

No way, not that guy

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Mike Maker is a man of the utmost integrity I hear.

[Rudeboyelvis]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/103146.html

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The theory is that shake users have fine-tuned the bi-carb mix and amounts given to keep the CO2 levels in the horse below the threshold that tests as a milkshake positive. Since horses have widely differing levels of CO2 in their systems, the positive level is quite high. So a horse testing just under the threshold positive level can very well have been been shaked.

A very prominent trainer, who has been around, has told me that he is sure that shakes are the majority of the seemingly outrageous performances we see from certain trainers and certain horses.

Thanks for the info. Steve.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The theory is that shake users have fine-tuned the bi-carb mix and amounts given to keep the CO2 levels in the horse below the threshold that tests as a milkshake positive. Since horses have widely differing levels of CO2 in their systems, the positive level is quite high. So a horse testing just under the threshold positive level can very well have been been shaked.

A very prominent trainer, who has been around, has told me that he is sure that shakes are the majority of the seemingly outrageous performances we see from certain trainers and certain horses.

The alchemists have figured out how to use the alkaline "paste" in a way that when inside a horse (via blood,respiratory or GI tract) during a race, it is able to maintain a high enough Ph during race conditions to avoid anaerobic metabolism and lactic acidosis due to effort or exertion thus the horse doesn't tire.

The additional advantage of these drugs are that they somehow avoid an end product of CO2 measured in blood when tested. Whether the paste is metabolized to COH or COOH or anything else is irrelevant. It's obvious that the alchemy wizards have figured out how to avoid excessive CO2 which is what is tested in venous horse blood.

Nothing new, the criminals are one step ahead of the law......at least for now. Frozen blood samples for all stakes winners would seem to be a good idea for now.

Originally Posted by docicu3

The alchemists have figured out how to use the alkaline "paste" in a way that when inside a horse (via blood,respiratory or GI tract) during a race, it is able to maintain a high enough Ph during race conditions to avoid anaerobic metabolism and lactic acidosis due to effort or exertion thus the horse doesn't tire.

The additional advantage of these drugs are that they somehow avoid an end product of CO2 measured in blood when tested. Whether the paste is metabolized to COH or COOH or anything else is irrelevant. It's obvious that the alchemy wizards have figured out how to avoid excessive CO2 which is what is tested in venous horse blood.

Nothing new, the criminals are one step ahead of the law......at least for now. Frozen blood samples for all stakes winners would seem to be a good idea for now.

With or without bicarb. you are going to go anaerobic.
The bicarb only buffers the pH so the muscles can
still contract and relax properly. Its that low pH that ruins the muscle action.
The protein in the muscle is very sensitive to pH as are almost all proteins.
Lactic acid is going to be produced with or without the shake.
The idea is to pick up those excess hydrogen ions from the lactic acid.

Agreed?
This is how I understand it.

Please discuss if you got something else as I would like to know.
I used to milkshake before 5K's that I was trying to set a PR for.
It never worked.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

With or without bicarb. you are going to go anaerobic.
The bicarb only buffers the pH so the muscles can
still contract and relax properly. Its that low pH that ruins the muscle action.
The protein in the muscle is very sensitive to pH as are almost all proteins.
Lactic acid is going to be produced with or without the shake.
The idea is to pick up those excess hydrogen ions from the lactic acid.

Agreed?
This is how I understand it.

Please discuss if you got something else as I would like to know.
I used to milkshake before 5K's that I was trying to set a PR for.
It never worked.

Too far. Try a 1 1/16th race.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Too far. Try a 1 1/16th race.

If they had run em, I would have tried em.
In any case, I actually kept very close records
of my workouts and race times. And the bicarb
did not help my plodding nature as far as I
could tell.

This is why I am interested as it appears to
help horses, mammals we both are, as it were.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I used to milkshake before 5K's that I was trying to set a PR for. It never worked.

Because the body is an amazing machine, that corrects whatever nonsense we do to it

Human marathoners can carbohydrate-load, however (if done correctly), Iditarod sled dogs can't (but the dogs can become metabolically adapted to preferentially use fat rather than carbohydrate aerobically).

I have a great interest in looking at feeding sprinters differently than route horses. Few try this in the TB world (although in other horse sports it's done very successfully)