Just for a change of pace

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Just to understand. You feel that is lawful and just for a goverment to go on foreign soil (war zone or not), kidnap a citizen of that foreign country, torture them and hold them captive for years...on grounds of suspicion.

Does that sum it up?

Kidnap? that's kind of funny. Maybe you think we should be on trial then? How do you feel about killing them while in the war zone? Disarm the military and give them tasers? Maybe just throw wads of money at them and run away.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Kidnap? that's kind of funny. Maybe you think we should be on trial then? How do you feel about killing them while in the war zone? Disarm the military and give them tasers? Maybe just throw wads of money at them and run away.

Not all the detainees were captured in war zones.

If you were walking down the street in your neighborhood and a van pulled up with masked men and they put a veil over your head and took you to another country...

would you call that kidnapping?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Not all the detainees were captured in war zones.

If you were walking down the street in your neighborhood and a van pulled up with masked men and they put a veil over your head and took you to another country...

would you call that kidnapping?

I'm sure there were tons of cases of isolated innocents being kidnapped by the secret army guys in white vans. And we are crazy?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm sure there were tons of cases of isolated innocents being kidnapped by the secret army guys in white vans. And we are crazy?

based on the stories that are coming forward from the few that have gotten out, my scenario is pretty accurate.

But then again, how would we know? Just like you said earlier to brian, we really wouldnt know. Thats the problem.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

based on the stories that are coming forward from the few that have gotten out, my scenario is pretty accurate.

But then again, how would we know? Just like you said earlier to brian, we really wouldnt know. Thats the problem.

Exactly. The fact that they had talked about their story alone puts us way down the chain of fear of Intellegence services. Think anyone talks after the Moussad or KGB releases them? Or I should say survives afterwards?

I know that bad things occur in the world. Condoning or approving them doesnt change the fact that they happen and in many cases need to happen. Think the three pirates killed would have surrendered willingly if they thought they would have been treated "fairly"? So killing them to save a life is less of a n issue than sleep deprivation of a terror suspect that may be withholding info on a imminent plot? Who gets to choose?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Exactly. The fact that they had talked about their story alone puts us way down the chain of fear of Intellegence services. Think anyone talks after the Moussad or KGB releases them? Or I should say survives afterwards?

I know that bad things occur in the world. Condoning or approving them doesnt change the fact that they happen and in many cases need to happen. Think the three pirates killed would have surrendered willingly if they thought they would have been treated "fairly"? So killing them to save a life is less of a n issue than sleep deprivation of a terror suspect that may be withholding info on a imminent plot? Who gets to choose?

Using the KGB or Moussad as examples to support the righteousness of our intelligence efforts is akin to me bringing up Imelda Marcos to prove that i don't own too many pairs of shoes.

Depriving people of liberty to protect liberty never made much sense to me.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Using the KGB or Moussad as examples to support the righteousness of our intelligence efforts is akin to me bringing up Imelda Marcos to prove that i don't own too many pairs of shoes.

Depriving people of liberty to protect liberty never made much sense to me.

No it is pointing out the hypocrisy of those who wish our services to operate in the publics view and avoid condemnation from foreign countries when similar agencies of other countries do neither. Holding ourselves to a "higher" standard will also make the CIA a less effective organization.