Just for a change of pace

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I don't think that any of us has a real clue as to what the CIA does or needs to do in order to keep us safe from the threats that have existed and continue to exist for decades. Who here is really qualified to understand any of these things in a meaningful context? Maybe it is distasteful but I have a hard time believing that the intelligence agencies of virtually every country in the world use tactics that dont work. Obviously we would all prefer terrorists to roll over without resorting to torture but I would guess that this is not the case in a great deal of cases but how would I really know? Some things are just better off unknown...

I know I don't agree with this. We are responsible for what this country's agents do. Just like the Japanese people (and the German people) should be blamed for what they allowed their leaders to do in WW2. We need to know, and we need to be responsible for it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I know I don't agree with this. We are responsible for what this country's agents do. Just like the Japanese people (and the German people) should be blamed for what they allowed their leaders to do in WW2. We need to know, and we need to be responsible for it.

That is a ridiculous argument. We dont need to know because we cant possibly understand it. How exactly did we hold the German and Japanese people responsible for their leaders actions? Rebuild their countries and give them lots of money? Please punish me....

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That is a ridiculous argument. We dont need to know because we cant possibly understand it. How exactly did we hold the German and Japanese people responsible for their leaders actions? Rebuild their countries and give them lots of money? Please punish me....

Fried the Japanese Civilians with the A bomb, and (as a people that didn't question their leaders) they all deserved it. Carpet bombed Dresden. Believe me, they thought they didn't need to know exactly what their leaders were doing. They went along with their leaders (just being loyal etc.) We could easily have a city here get hit by atleast a dirty bomb, because people think we tortured (and sadly we don't know exactly what our leaders had done down there.)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Fried the Japanese Civilians with the A bomb, and (as a people that didn't question their leaders) they all deserved it. Carpet bombed Dresden. Believe me, they thought they didn't need to know exactly what their leaders were doing. They went along with their leaders (just being loyal etc.) We could easily have a city here get hit by atleast a dirty bomb, because people think we tortured (and sadly we don't know exactly what our leaders had done down there.)

I know it is you but do you really think that if terrorists were capable of using a dirty bomb against us that they wouldnt if we treated their prisoners in a better manner?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I know it is you but do you really think that if terrorists were capable of using a dirty bomb against us that they wouldnt if we treated their prisoners in a better manner?

It sure doesn't help. How can I complain about the barbaric things they do in Islamic countries, and then say nothing when our government does some of the same?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

It sure doesn't help. How can I complain about the barbaric things they do in Islamic countries, and then say nothing when our government does some of the same?

Please be serious. Apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I know I don't agree with this. We are responsible for what this country's agents do. Just like the Japanese people (and the German people) should be blamed for what they allowed their leaders to do in WW2. We need to know, and we need to be responsible for it.

I did not take the quote the same way.
But we do need to take responsibilty.

I was thinking more along the lines of the CIA
is probably fiddling with brain chemistry in such a way
as to not cause irrepairable mental damage and still
get info. with stuff we would not udnerstand

[Cannon Shell]

While this is not directly about torture it is interesting that in dealing with real world issues that Obama walks along the same lines as the previous administration. This is one campaign promise I hope stays broken.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027091370936935.html

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I did not take the quote the same way.
But we do need to take responsibilty.

I was thinking more along the lines of the CIA
is probably fiddling with brain chemistry in such a way
as to not cause irrepairable mental damage and still
get info. with stuff we would not udnerstand

I'm pretty sure it started in your classes!

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

waterboarding and other assorted measures are 100 percent usefull and should be ok....gimme a break people..you dont know what intel is/was taken from these people in abue grade/or guantanamo.its part of the 'game'. you get caught.you have a choice..help or we will help you.why should we care about these combatants..as if they whould not as a whole strap a bomb to themselves and walk into wallmart and boom..just as they continue to do to our troops in iraq.this bleeding hart stuff for combat troops ie al q. is laughable..feed the homeless..start there first.......

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

waterboarding and other assorted measures are 100 percent usefull and should be ok....gimme a break people..you dont know what intel is/was taken from these people in abue grade/or guantanamo.its part of the 'game'. you get caught.you have a choice..help or we will help you.why should we care about these combatants..as if they whould not as a whole strap a bomb to themselves and walk into wallmart and boom..just as they continue to do to our troops in iraq.this bleeding hart stuff for combat troops ie al q. is laughable..feed the homeless..start there first.......

What if the person being tortured is not a terrorist and knows nothing?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

What if the person being tortured is not a terrorist and knows nothing?

hes just phucked..wrong place at the wrong time..many in our own jails suffer the same fate..

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

i have a friend that was at abue grade..he is a doctor he was assisting a dentist who was giving dental care extractions ect.. the prisoners where skared shittless of the dentist.. get the whole point here..not all of the supposed bad things that happend were true.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

hes just phucked..wrong place at the wrong time..many in our own jails suffer the same fate..

LOL...SOUNDS RUSSIAN.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

What if the person being tortured is not a terrorist and knows nothing?

We should use those 100% accurate gentler methods? Maybe ask them nicely if they are a terrorist?

Everybody in prison is innocent too, just ask them.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We should use those 100% accurate gentler methods? Maybe ask them nicely if they are a terrorist?

Everybody in prison is innocent too, just ask them.

You walk down a dangerous road when you get rid of the checks and balances and let individuals become judge, jury and executioner.

Do we really want to be a country that claims to be spreading democracy and human rights around the globe while at the same time denying these same basic ideals at our choosing?

Hard to be fighting for human rights and then denying them at the same time. No?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We should use those 100% accurate gentler methods? Maybe ask them nicely if they are a terrorist?

Everybody in prison is innocent too, just ask them.

But the assumption that every one of the captives is a terrorist and should be punished without benefit of a trial goes against everything this country is based on. No?

[Cannon Shell]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123972817445317541.html