Not Phone, First Samurai, etc

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Lbigdog77

Ironhorse - Weak as could be, thank you please.

Ky Derby winner - not there. Preakness winner - not there.

4th place finisher in the Ky Derby and entry in the Belmont - a maiden - did you know this or do you have a different angle?

3rd place finisher in the Preakness and entry in the Belmont - a MAIDEN - did you know this or do you have a different angle?

That's A Given won a 1 1/8 race at Belmont under a hand ride in almost the identical time as Sunriver's Peter Pan win (under a strong whipping).

Who are your strong, quality contenders? Please enlighten me. Lansdon

You are missing my point. Despite the fact that Barbaro and Bernardini are not running there still are some good horses running in here. They also have a good solid foundation for this race. I disagree with you that they are all weak. I do agree that some in here seem to be reaching.

Bluegrass Cat, Deputy Glitters, Jazil, Steppenwolfer, Sunriver and Bob & John seem to be the stronger horses.

I have a hard time using your horses race in comparison to Sunriver for two reasons. Different day and maiden field vs. a stakes field.

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

You are missing my point. Despite the fact that Barbaro and Bernardini are not running there still are some good horses running in here. They also have a good solid foundation for this race. I disagree with you that they are all weak. I do agree that some in here seem to be reaching.

Bluegrass Cat, Deputy Glitters, Jazil, Steppenwolfer, Sunriver and Bob & John seem to be the stronger horses.

I have a hard time using your horses race in comparison to Sunriver for two reasons. Different day and maiden field vs. a stakes field.

Funny thats what they said about sarava and Commendable as well as Noalns Cat last year before he hit the board.
Its a mile and a half race and at this time of year what some would call foundation, others would call over the top. The horses you just named have all been going at it very hard since last fall/winter. I've seen many melt down in the belmont who fit their profile. No doubt if he runs he will be a big price, thats justified. But Belmont Park is a particularly quirky surface, note Silver Trains dominance on it while being just average everyplace else. If you have a horse who handles big Sandy, you are always more inclined to take a shot. I also know that if Thats A Given had to ship for this race that he would not be considered. But when they are running a race atyour home track and you dont have teh taxation of shipping, its reasonable to tak a shot where you might not. One other thing, the detention barn has been an issue with amny horses who come to NY to race. It affected the BC last fall as a few horses flipped out in it. Obviously, Thats A given has handled it and it only meansa short walk from his stall.
The non winners of one condition will be written once a week at a track he can run at for the rest of this summer. hes already tri crwon nominated so its not like they are gambling a late fee, or shipping expenses. just taking a colt who appears to be getting sharper and taking a shot on his home track which he loves, in a race that his sire won by a city block. I guess its a good thing Lukas and Mcpeek didn't listen to people when Commendable and Sarava ran and won as "hopelessly overmatched horses" in 2000 and 2002.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Funny thats what they said about sarava and Commendable as well as Noalns Cat last year before he hit the board.
Its a mile and a half race and at this time of year what some would call foundation, others would call over the top. The horses you just named have all been going at it very hard since last fall/winter. I've seen many melt down in the belmont who fit their profile. No doubt if he runs he will be a big price, thats justified. But Belmont Park is a particularly quirky surface, note Silver Trains dominance on it while being just average everyplace else. If you have a horse who handles big Sandy, you are always more inclined to take a shot. I also know that if Thats A Given had to ship for this race that he would not be considered. But when they are running a race atyour home track and you dont have teh taxation of shipping, its reasonable to tak a shot where you might not. One other thing, the detention barn has been an issue with amny horses who come to NY to race. It affected the BC last fall as a few horses flipped out in it. Obviously, Thats A given has handled it and it only meansa short walk from his stall.
The non winners of one condition will be written once a week at a track he can run at for the rest of this summer. hes already tri crwon nominated so its not like they are gambling a late fee, or shipping expenses. just taking a colt who appears to be getting sharper and taking a shot on his home track which he loves, in a race that his sire won by a city block. I guess its a good thing Lukas and Mcpeek didn't listen to people when Commendable and Sarava ran and won as "hopelessly overmatched horses" in 2000 and 2002.

I agree. I had Nolan's Cat last year in my tri (didn't have Andromeda's Hero though DUH), and I was glad that I didn't listen to everyone else who said he had no shot of hitting the board. I would give "That's a Given" a chance in the Belmont based upon his pedigree alone. This field is a weak field (compared to those in the past) and I think that the colt deserves a chance.

Ironhorse - You confuse me. Why is Jazil listed as one of your top Belmont selections? He's a maiden ... never won a race, but now he's a top pick for a grade I win?

I would never post here saying I'm confident That's A Given will win the Belmont (we may not even enter him). But could he run well and finish in the money (and possibly, long shot as it may be, win)? Absolutely.

You have no right to call me "arrogant". "Hopeful", yes. "Optimistic", yes.

If you meet me in person, then you have every right to call me whatever you want. Until that day, please refrain from the negative labeling. We can get plenty of that on the ESPN board.

Lansdon

[randallscott35]

Jazil is not a maiden. He won a Mdsp at AQ in December.

[zippyneedsawin]

I think Sacred Light is the maiden Ldog is thinking of.

Originally Posted by Lbigdog77

Ironhorse - You confuse me. Why is Jazil listed as one of your top Belmont selections? He's a maiden ... never won a race, but now he's a top pick for a grade I win?

I would never post here saying I'm confident That's A Given will win the Belmont (we may not even enter him). But could he run well and finish in the money (and possibly, long shot as it may be, win)? Absolutely.

You have no right to call me "arrogant". "Hopeful", yes. "Optimistic", yes.

If you meet me in person, then you have every right to call me whatever you want. Until that day, please refrain from the negative labeling. We can get plenty of that on the ESPN board.

Lansdon

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Lbigdog77

Ironhorse - You confuse me. Why is Jazil listed as one of your top Belmont selections? He's a maiden ... never won a race, but now he's a top pick for a grade I win?

I would never post here saying I'm confident That's A Given will win the Belmont (we may not even enter him). But could he run well and finish in the money (and possibly, long shot as it may be, win)? Absolutely.

You have no right to call me "arrogant". "Hopeful", yes. "Optimistic", yes.

If you meet me in person, then you have every right to call me whatever you want. Until that day, please refrain from the negative labeling. We can get plenty of that on the ESPN board.

Lansdon

My intention was not to offend you if I did I apologize. I agree about the ESPN site as well. The personal attacks and trashing of horses is uncalled for. Maybe arrogant was too strong a word but I really question running a maiden winner in the Belmont. It just seems that because Barbaro and Bernardini are not running people are dismissing the other runners as weak. I believe there are still some quality seasoned horses in the race and asking a recent maiden to beat them is a tall order. I think your horse looks like a good one I would get him a couple more wins than step up for the fall. I realize that is just my opinion and you could careless its just to explain to you where I am coming from.

[randallscott35]

If Commendable can win the Belmont, pretty much any horse can. Worst winner of a Triple Crown race in history.

[Buffymommy]

OK, I said I wasn't going to post here, but I came over and saw LLbigdog over here and I wanted to say thank you for sharing your experiences with everyone. Sorry about the buttheads over at the ESPN board. Some just don't know how to play well with others. Unhappy people who get jealous when others are happy and doing well.

I am happy to hear about FS. I can't wait to see him run again!

Also, run your horse in the Belmont. If he is fit enough and your trainer thinks he can handle it and is ready, why not take a chance? Love me some Point Given babies. Would love to see one in the Belmont. Personally the only horses to worry about would be BobandJohn (just cause I don't think he ran his race in the Derby), Sunriver and Deputy Glitters. But honestly, go for it!

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

My intention was not to offend you if I did I apologize. I agree about the ESPN site as well. The personal attacks and trashing of horses is uncalled for. Maybe arrogant was too strong a word but I really question running a maiden winner in the Belmont. It just seems that because Barbaro and Bernardini are not running people are dismissing the other runners as weak. I believe there are still some quality seasoned horses in the race and asking a recent maiden to beat them is a tall order. I think your horse looks like a good one I would get him a couple more wins than step up for the fall. I realize that is just my opinion and you could careless its just to explain to you where I am coming from.

What is the reason for racing. The bottom line is money. I thing lbig is a great example of of horse ownership and looks out for his horses well being But cashing checks helps him stay in the business. Imaintain an enty in the belmount will produce a better return for him with the big purse in the Belmont. Even with a 5th he will get a better check than a N/W of 1 race. Who are we only fans and gamblers questioning a owner of his status. I have opinions of what to do but I dont think im qualified to tell him how to run his stable.

Originally Posted by jpops757

What is the reason for racing. The bottom line is money. I thing lbig is a great example of of horse ownership and looks out for his horses well being But cashing checks helps him stay in the business. Imaintain an enty in the belmount will produce a better return for him with the big purse in the Belmont. Even with a 5th he will get a better check than a N/W of 1 race. Who are we only fans and gamblers questioning a owner of his status. I have opinions of what to do but I dont think im qualified to tell him how to run his stable.

Its not like he doesn't get some good input from trusted sources as well.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by jpops757

What is the reason for racing. The bottom line is money. I thing lbig is a great example of of horse ownership and looks out for his horses well being But cashing checks helps him stay in the business. Imaintain an enty in the belmount will produce a better return for him with the big purse in the Belmont. Even with a 5th he will get a better check than a N/W of 1 race. Who are we only fans and gamblers questioning a owner of his status. I have opinions of what to do but I dont think im qualified to tell him how to run his stable.

I expressed an opinion. I explained what my opinion was based on. There are many ways to look look at a race. I was not trying to tell him what to do only what I would do. Everyday people post here about their opinions. Some are the same and some are very different. I guess thats why we run the races.
Why do you assume that everyone that posts here is just a fan or gambler?

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Glad to have you back Lansdon. I really enjoy your posts. You seem to manage your horses really well, and put them in good spots where you think they have a chance. If you think That's A Given stands a chance, I would say go for it. I would personally love to see him run, and I love rooting for your horses. The Belmont is shaping up to be a great race because it is so wide open. I hope First Samuri makes it back soon.