KY Racing

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bellamy,
Thats not the real problem with KY racing. The real problem is the lack on continuity on the racing schedule and constant schlepping around that you have to do.
NY, Cali, Florida, and illinois all have continuous racing within proximity of a small distance geographically. True NY and Cali require trainers to head to Del Mar and the Spa, but only 6 or 7 weeks respectively and the trainers cant wait to go.
Kentucky's schedule makes it life on the run. In the spring you get Keeneland in April and then Churchill until very early July. But after that, you get the Pea Patch down at Ellis with miniscule purses and noplace to run good horses. So many have to head to Arlington or even NY. Then you have to decide how long you wanna stay in those places, or whether to head to Turfway which is in a totally different part of he state altogether.
Then its back to Keeneland for 3 weeks, back to CD for 4 weeks, then back to Turfway or shipping out to another jurisdiction altogether from December until April.
Mike, these are folks with families. Its also very hard to find or ship good help on the road all year long. And if you set up shop at CD as a home base, you have the privilige of traveling an hour and back to lexington each day for 7 weeks a year, or even farther to Turfway.
Its a grind buddy. I mean regular people will gripe about a 45 minute commute to work and back each day. Try vanning horses even longer all the time and driving it yourself.
Life out of a hotel room orrented rooms isnt that much fun either.
Jones took off to Delaware because it made sense. Big purses, proximity to ship to NY or NJ easily. And he can put down roots from April until November. Then he can ship to KY or Fla until Oaklawn opens and then back home to Delaware.
Purses alone won't fix KY. They need a continuous racing circuit that makes sense and allows horseman to live a semi normal life as far as travel goes.
Horsemen in Ny are basically ok. AQu and Bel are right near each other, and its just one ship down to Florida in the winter and up to Spa in the summer when the kids are off from school and the whole family enjoys the 6 weeks. Same with horseman in Cali with regards to SA and Hollywood, and identical scenario with Del Mar.

I have to disagree with this. The racing schedule is fine in Kentucky. They run Turfway from Dec to April. Then to Keeneland for one month. Then to Churchill from May to August. Then to Turfway for one month. Then to Keeneland. Then to Churchill. Churchill, Keeneland and Turfway are all within 1.5 hours of each other. Most trainers in KY will take the two Keeneland meets off because their horses dont fit with that type of high level racing. Each Keeneland meet is 4 weeks so it is no big deal for the trainer to give their horses a rest. The trouble with KY racing is that the purses are so small (with the exception of Keeneland). Slots is only part of the overall fix. Slots, when used correctly, can begin the foundation of racing improvement. However, it cant be seen as a cure all with no desire to build upon the slots money. What is happening is that trainers from Mountaineer is coming in and claiming horses at a low level and then shipping them back to Mountaineer to run at the same level but for more money. Ernie Fletcher has totally destroyed the racing industry in KY. New York has the best breeders program I have ever seen. However, KY doesnt have one and I do not know why. The racing schedule is fine, there are so many other things wrong that it isnt a totaly fix. But Jones leaving is a huge loss.

[Cannon Shell]

Euro,
Keeneland is 3 weeks in spring and summer not 4. Where do you get the idea that most KY trainers dont run during Keeneland? In the spring 80% of the horses are KY horses or trainer by a trainer with a division in KY. In the fall it is probably 95%.

Ernie Fletcher has done nothing for horseracing in KY but he certainly hasn't ruined it.

KY does not have a breeders program??? KTDF doesn't count?

Jones leaving was a loss for Ellis Park but he really never ran all that much anywhere else.

I would not consider Churchill's purses to be small.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Euro,
Keeneland is 3 weeks in spring and summer not 4. Where do you get the idea that most KY trainers dont run during Keeneland? In the spring 80% of the horses are KY horses or trainer by a trainer with a division in KY. In the fall it is probably 95%.

Ernie Fletcher has done nothing for horseracing in KY but he certainly hasn't ruined it.

KY does not have a breeders program??? KTDF doesn't count?

Jones leaving was a loss for Ellis Park but he really never ran all that much anywhere else.

I would not consider Churchill's purses to be small.

I dont consider Zito, Pletcher etc etc KY trainers if they have a stable in KY. They move down here just for the meet. People like Woodard, Flint, Whiting Greenhill etc etc do not run (well if they do they will send 1 horse) at Keeneland and these are the people that are based in KY all year. Big names like Romans will run at Keeneland. The KTDF is a joke compared to New York's program. If you want to consider that a program then go for it. But it is a joke. Ernie Fletcher is about as bad as a politician as there can be. By doing nothing is for worse than actually trying to do something. The fall meet this year is only 24 days. If you dont think KY purses are small then you dont have high expectations.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I dont consider Zito, Pletcher etc etc KY trainers if they have a stable in KY. They move down here just for the meet. People like Woodard, Flint, Whiting Greenhill etc etc do not run (well if they do they will send 1 horse) at Keeneland and these are the people that are based in KY all year. Big names like Romans will run at Keeneland. The KTDF is a joke compared to New York's program. If you want to consider that a program then go for it. But it is a joke. Ernie Fletcher is about as bad as a politician as there can be. By doing nothing is for worse than actually trying to do something. The fall meet this year is only 24 days. If you dont think KY purses are small then you dont have high expectations.

Steve and Bernie Flint ran 21 horses and had 4 winners in the spring meet.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Steve and Bernie Flint ran 21 horses and had 4 winners in the spring meet.

That actually surprises me. Thanks for the info on that one.

[Cannon Shell]

Pletcher has 36 horses in KY spring through fall. If things were so bad why is HE invading?

What exactly have the governors of California and NY done for racing in those states?

Bernie Flint does not run at Keeneland?

Churchill and Keeneland's purses are higher than Belmonts for KY breds because of the KTDF.

The NY program is nice for owners but is strangling the quality of NY's racing program. Best NY breds are by KY sires.

[Cannon Shell]

Oh and I forgot what a great job Jeb Bush has done for Florida racing!!!

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Pletcher has 36 horses in KY spring through fall. If things were so bad why is HE invading?

What exactly have the governors of California and NY done for racing in those states?

Bernie Flint does not run at Keeneland?

Churchill and Keeneland's purses are higher than Belmonts for KY breds because of the KTDF.

The NY program is nice for owners but is strangling the quality of NY's racing program. Best NY breds are by KY sires.

If you consider Pletcher a KY trainer then you are right. But he has 100's of horses and only 36 of them are in KY. I will let people who know about New York and Cali racing chime in on the Govenor question. I will let Oracle chime in on the last thing you said about the New York breds. And the New York breeders program is flat out awesome. Far better than Kentuckys.

[Cannon Shell]

euro,
You can make a case that Pletcher is not based in KY but in having 36 horses based at Chuchill he has more horses than 99% of KY trainers.

You can not compare the breeding programs in NY and KY, apples and oranges.

Purses in KY 6 months are great, 6 months not so great but things are moving in the right direction. KEEP is the best horseracing
group out there, Polytrack will save Turfway, Keeneland remains strong, Churchill is focusing more on Churchill which is good plus purses there continue to rise, the new breeders rewards program is good for smaller breeders, and Slots are looming with the upcoming 2007 elimination of Mr. Fletcher. Not perfect but in the long run probably the best bet for successful racing/breeding programs.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

euro,
You can make a case that Pletcher is not based in KY but in having 36 horses based at Chuchill he has more horses than 99% of KY trainers.

You can not compare the breeding programs in NY and KY, apples and oranges.

Purses in KY 6 months are great, 6 months not so great but things are moving in the right direction. KEEP is the best horseracing
group out there, Polytrack will save Turfway, Keeneland remains strong, Churchill is focusing more on Churchill which is good plus purses there continue to rise, the new breeders rewards program is good for smaller breeders, and Slots are looming with the upcoming 2007 elimination of Mr. Fletcher. Not perfect but in the long run probably the best bet for successful racing/breeding programs.

I think it will be years before KY gets slots. That bible thumper in Lexington will keep the vote off of the ballot.

The problem is with the purses at Turfway and Ellis. If the purses were 75% of Churchill and Keeneland then most trainers would stay for at least the winter meet at Turfway. Now Ellis is a different story since a few of the KY trainers like Biancone and Romans have the stock to somewhat compete* at Saratoga.

Ellis has really suffered in most part for being owned by a company that wanted to kill the product to begin with so Arlington could thrive. A freakin' Fairmount park trainer won the title this year by seven wins.

The 7th race on Mondays card summed up the meet concerning the quality of racing. If you have the time check out the replay.


*I don't know what happened to Romans this summer. He must have stepped in front of a black cat.