A Saratoga wrap up, best and worst

Originally Posted by 2 Dollar Bill

As the trees get ready to turn, the horse trailers are loaded up, and the quiet of Saratoga returns. Another summer is taken away from us, as your thoughts turn to the Breeders Cup, cutting and stacking firewood, Must winter be on its way ? Another long wait till the Magic of the Spa comes to life again next July. Wouldnt it be grand if I got one wish from the ""genie in the bottle""....and wished for a Breeders Cup @ the Spa ? Is it just me or do i need ONE more big weekend from the Spa ? Maybe if we all take a minute tonight and gaze upon the stars and just make One wish, the form will have entries for this weekend @ Saratoga !
I enjoyed everyones post and insight into the summer of saratoga, please keep up the good work & winning tips !!

Btw.... when does Toss the Feathers run again....LOL

You know Bill,
The reasons they say they won't run the BC at the Spa are absolutely ridiculous. WIth the Oklahoma training track and its barns, and the cool weather that would make the Euros feel at home, and the fact that they would sell out to an incredible capacity crowd, it simply makes no sense not to have it here. I will never understand it. Airport is in close proximity for shippers, and obviously big days up here each year are the norm. A Wednesday- Saturday meet which ended in the BC would be a smashing success like none ever seen.
The reason I hear most often is tha lack of heat within the plant. I'm not quite sure that anyone would care. It gets cold in other places where they have the BC as well. I won't ever understand why they can't hold it here. I guess the juvenile races would have to lengthened like they did at Arlington, but other than that it would be a smooth fit.

[2 Dollar Bill]

If they can make it work @ Momouth Park along the seashore, Im sure they can do it @ saragota. Heck with the winters (global warm.) we been having it probably will not be that cold to start with & maybe no thunder showers...lol If somehow a ground swell could be started of racing fans and maybe for the Magic of Saratoga and the 25th anniversary of the Breeders Cup !

[Rupert Pupkin]

Gomez was the best jock of the meet by far. His numbers were incredible. He had the highest win percentage of any jock. He had the highest in the money percentage by far. Not only that, he was doing it on price horses. Look at the prices of some of his horses lately. Keen Lassie pays $12.80 to win, Corryville pays $10.20 to place, Second of June pays $19.00 to place, Tiz Wondeful pays $12.60 to win, Zanjero pays $6.50 to place, Sipsey pays $16.00 to win, On the Catwalk pays $15.20 to win. Those are just a few of the horses he rode the last 3 days. He's the only jockey you could bet on every race and make money. He is so far the best that it really isn't close. He will often times move a horse up by 3-4 lengths. I'm glad that most of you don't get it. I'm glad you think that Edgar Prado is just as good as Gomez. That's like thinking that David Toms is as good as Tiger Woods. It's absurd. They're not in the same league.

If anyone has the stats, I'd like to see the ROI on Gomez' horses at Saratoga compared to Prado and the other jocks.

[Gander]

I do agree Gomez is a great jockey and question his constant criticism, but I dont agree with your golf analogy. Thats insane. Saying that Prado is just as good as Gomez isnt even close to saying David Toms is as good as Tiger. David Toms isnt even the 2nd or 3rd best golfer. And in golf, the players are the ones who do all the work. While aided by very sharp caddies, they have to make every swing. They arent helped like jockeys are with brilliant horses, like Bailey, Prado and Johnny V have been.

And Tiger Woods is a once in a lifetime athlete. I dont think any jockey in the history of time is as good at his craft is Tiger is at golf.

Originally Posted by Gander

I do agree Gomez is a great jockey and question his constant criticism, but I dont agree with your golf analogy. Thats insane. Saying that Prado is just as good as Gomez isnt even close to saying David Toms is as good as Tiger. David Toms isnt even the 2nd or 3rd best golfer. And in golf, the players are the ones who do all the work. While aided by very sharp caddies, they have to make every swing. They arent helped like jockeys are with brilliant horses, like Bailey, Prado and Johnny V have been.

And Tiger Woods is a once in a lifetime athlete. I dont think any jockey in the history of time is as good at his craft is Tiger is at golf.

Prado is a proven star and he is consistent. Gomez needs to actually win a title here first, LOL! He then needs to even out his good week/bad week style. "I won the races I tried to win" are his words, not mine. And everything you need to know about him is summed up in that statement.
Professionals like Prado always show up and give you an effort. They don't pull Milwaukee's. Rupert, I know you can't do this, but go ahead an try. Find on ride by Prado or Johnny the whole meet that was 1/2 as horrible as Gomez's ride on Milwaukee. Good luck.
Thats what seperates the very best, the ability to not destroy a horse witha ride like that.

[Seattleallstar]

not winning a god damn cent saratoga was all the worst for me, ****in pure incentive costing me a few thousand dollars

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

not winning a god damn cent saratoga was all the worst for me, ****in pure incentive costing me a few thousand dollars

And Appealing Zophie cost me an $80K pick 6...

But Saratoga this year was better than ever. Anybody that can say there's a better place to race with a straight face better pass the joint. Driving back to the city on Monday was downright depressing- Belmont fall is a great meet but nothing compared to the mystique, energy, and quality of the Spa. I'm a firm believer they should expand the meet to the Wednesday after July 4th until Labor Day (so approximately 9 weeks.) How amazing would that be??

I love the place enough that I'd move there, and put up with upstate (where I grew up and vowed I'd never come back) for 46 weeks a year, just to take in the whole 6 weeks instead of just the weekends...

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by philcski

And Appealing Zophie cost me an $80K pick 6...

But Saratoga this year was better than ever. Anybody that can say there's a better place to race with a straight face better pass the joint. Driving back to the city on Monday was downright depressing- Belmont fall is a great meet but nothing compared to the mystique, energy, and quality of the Spa. I'm a firm believer they should expand the meet to the Wednesday after July 4th until Labor Day (so approximately 9 weeks.) How amazing would that be??

I love the place enough that I'd move there, and put up with upstate (where I grew up and vowed I'd never come back) for 46 weeks a year, just to take in the whole 6 weeks instead of just the weekends...

Not amazing at all. You have any idea how terrible those cards would become?

[Gander]

Not to turn this into a golf thread, but Tiger just won his 5th tournament in a row, 1 short of his personal best 6 in a row which he did in 99-00.

Comparing Prado and Gomez is a very valid comparison. They are both great at what they do and both aided by the fact they ride the very best horses.

There are times Prado is better and there are times when Gomex is better. They both ride in streaks.

David Toms couldnt shine Tiger's shoes.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Gander

Not to turn this into a golf thread, but Tiger just won his 5th tournament in a row, 1 short of his personal best 6 in a row which he did in 99-00.

Comparing Prado and Gomez is a very valid comparison. They are both great at what they do and both aided by the fact they ride the very best horses.

There are times Prado is better and there are times when Gomex is better. They both ride in streaks.

David Toms couldnt shine Tiger's shoes.

If you watch these two guys ride on a horse coming down the stretch, you can't compare the two. It's not close. Toms and Tiger are closer in ability than Gomez and Prado. It's just hard to prove because there is no way to prove how much is the jockey and how much is the horse. In addition, horses don't run the same every time, so even if a horse improves by 4 lengths the first time Gomez rides it, you can't say for sure that it was a result of the jock switch. The horse may have simply been feeling better that day.

I'm still not sold on Prado. Over the year, I've seen guys dominate in New York that can't ride a lick. I admit that Prado must be a smart rider. He's obviously doing something right but when you watch him coming down the lane, he really doesn't look like he can ride much. I would say the same for Ramon Dominguez. It's amazing that Dominguez could be the leading rider anywhere. He can't even ride and whip a horse at the same time.

Damn--made me wish that I had gone up there for a few.

Nice wrap-up,Oracle.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Prado is a proven star and he is consistent. Gomez needs to actually win a title here first, LOL! He then needs to even out his good week/bad week style. "I won the races I tried to win" are his words, not mine. And everything you need to know about him is summed up in that statement.
Professionals like Prado always show up and give you an effort. They don't pull Milwaukee's. Rupert, I know you can't do this, but go ahead an try. Find on ride by Prado or Johnny the whole meet that was 1/2 as horrible as Gomez's ride on Milwaukee. Good luck.
Thats what seperates the very best, the ability to not destroy a horse witha ride like that.

Milwaukee had nothing when she found room. I knew she wouldn't win when she came back unless she faced a really weak field. I hope you didn't bet her yesterday.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Gomez was the best jock of the meet by far. His numbers were incredible. He had the highest win percentage of any jock. He had the highest in the money percentage by far. Not only that, he was doing it on price horses. Look at the prices of some of his horses lately. Keen Lassie pays $12.80 to win, Corryville pays $10.20 to place, Second of June pays $19.00 to place, Tiz Wondeful pays $12.60 to win, Zanjero pays $6.50 to place, Sipsey pays $16.00 to win, On the Catwalk pays $15.20 to win. Those are just a few of the horses he rode the last 3 days. He's the only jockey you could bet on every race and make money. He is so far the best that it really isn't close. He will often times move a horse up by 3-4 lengths. I'm glad that most of you don't get it. I'm glad you think that Edgar Prado is just as good as Gomez. That's like thinking that David Toms is as good as Tiger Woods. It's absurd. They're not in the same league.

If anyone has the stats, I'd like to see the ROI on Gomez' horses at Saratoga compared to Prado and the other jocks.

I agree that it is laughable to argue about who was the best jockey at the recently concluded Saratoga Meet. Gomez was easily the best and the numbers dont lie. This is a jockey that was NEW to the toughest racing circuit in the country and still managed to lead in percentage and dollars won. Quite a feat.

I dont agree that he is that much better than Prado though. By the mere fact that he is Edgar Prado, the prices on his mounts will be shorter. I am more comfortable saying that they are equivalent and that Gomez outrode him a little bit this meet.

The Spa meet isn't the only time everyone in the industry gets together
what about the horsemen out at Del Mar?
I'd consider the Derby and the BC more of an all-inclusive gathering
I'm not saying it isn't great, I'm sure it is
but when East meets West, and toss in Mid-west and International
to me, you'd have to rate that as higher horse racing affair

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

The Spa meet isn't the only time everyone in the industry gets together
what about the horsemen out at Del Mar?
I'd consider the Derby and the BC more of an all-inclusive gathering
I'm not saying it isn't great, I'm sure it is
but when East meets West, and toss in Mid-west and International
to me, you'd have to rate that as higher horse racing affair

Bellamy you really don't get it.
Not everyone goes to the Derby or the Bc. Trust me, everyone goes to the spa.
At those events you can't even watch workouts without a badge or paying to get in.
Its not about the horse racing Bellamy. You can watch that on tv, and most people do.
saratoga's daily attendance is the highets average in the USA. Dwarfs every place else. Now why do you think that is when they could all stay home and watch on tv?
You really should come here once before you make a statement like that. I don't know how you could compare them without attending it.
I could go forever without attending a BC, and not care one bit. I love the derby and Kentucky, but if given a choice between never being there again, and attending the Spa. It would take less than a nanosecond to make the choice.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bellamy you really don't get it.
Not everyone goes to the Derby or the Bc. Trust me, everyone goes to the spa.
At those events you can't even watch workouts without a badge or paying to get in.
Its not about the horse racing Bellamy. You can watch that on tv, and most people do.
saratoga's daily attendance is the highets average in the USA. Dwarfs every place else. Now why do you think that is when they could all stay home and watch on tv?
You really should come here once before you make a statement like that. I don't know how you could compare them without attending it.
I could go forever without attending a BC, and not care one bit. I love the derby and Kentucky, but if given a choice between never being there again, and attending the Spa. It would take less than a nanosecond to make the choice.

Have you ever been to Del Mar? It used to be great. It's not that great any more because both the dirt and the turf courses are all messed up. I don't like running horses on either surface down there. I won't have to worry about the dirt any more because they are geting rid of it but that turf course is a joke. It's like cement.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Have you ever been to Del Mar? It used to be great. It's not that great any more because both the dirt and the turf courses are all messed up. I don't like running horses on either surface down there. I won't have to worry about the dirt any more because they are geting rid of it but that turf course is a joke. It's like cement.

Rupert,
I have always wanted to see del mar more than any other track. I've never tried to compare the atmosphere or ambience of the two because I couldn't do so in an intelligent manner obviously.
My friends are all unanimous in their praise of its women, atmosphere, and climate. All the folks I know give it a huge thumbs up.
The racing stinks there these days but I still wanna see it someday. It just doesn't work out for me because it starts before we start here by a week and overlaps. Someday though I'm gonna fly out of here on Tuesday(today) and catch the last two days and the Futurity. Maybe someday get to meet you and Alysheba and the West Coast guys on here.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bellamy you really don't get it.
Not everyone goes to the Derby or the Bc. Trust me, everyone goes to the spa.
At those events you can't even watch workouts without a badge or paying to get in.
Its not about the horse racing Bellamy. You can watch that on tv, and most people do.
saratoga's daily attendance is the highets average in the USA. Dwarfs every place else. Now why do you think that is when they could all stay home and watch on tv?
You really should come here once before you make a statement like that. I don't know how you could compare them without attending it.
I could go forever without attending a BC, and not care one bit. I love the derby and Kentucky, but if given a choice between never being there again, and attending the Spa. It would take less than a nanosecond to make the choice.

Hogwash! Travers day 40,000, Derby day 150,000, but I guess 40,000 includes "everybody"...there was not a single west coast trainer there, and why should there be when they can make money at Del Mar...you know a lot but you don't get it that the East Coast is not the end all be all, take John Q. Public in Mesa, Arizona who loves racing, maybe he gets to the Spa once in his entire lifetime...it's just too out of the way, even if you find a cheap flight to the city you're still 3.5 hours away, which is why they'll never have a BC there, but they will at Monmouth? Hmmm. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the pecking order is 1) Derby, BC and then everything else is based on proximity.

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

Hogwash! Travers day 40,000, Derby day 150,000, but I guess 40,000 includes "everybody"...there was not a single west coast trainer there, and why should there be when they can make money at Del Mar...you know a lot but you don't get it that the East Coast is not the end all be all, take John Q. Public in Mesa, Arizona who loves racing, maybe he gets to the Spa once in his entire lifetime...it's just too out of the way, even if you find a cheap flight to the city you're still 3.5 hours away, which is why they'll never have a BC there, but they will at Monmouth? Hmmm. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the pecking order is 1) Derby, BC and then everything else is based on proximity.

Well lets see, I've been to all three, and to me its not close.
Hogwash is trying to use a derby day figure to compare to 36 days. Wanna go average for average daily attendance at a meet?
And most folks don't go to the track for racing alone, its also the atmosphere and things to do afterwards and before.
I've been to cups at CD, Bel, Gulf, Arlington and Lone Star. They are ok I guess, but its just another day at the track.Especially since you have to pay a fortune to get in the door. And I never saw anyplace like Siros afterwards at any of them.
Derbies are great, if you are lucky enough to have friends with a great box. But i dunno about paying 50 bucks to get in the joint to sit on a folding chair in the grandstand and buy a 6 dollar water. The AVERAGE GUY gets into Saratoga for 3 dollars and gets to see grade one races 13 times a meet.
And besides, those events are one day. You blow in and you blow out.
Saratoga is 6 weeks, and anyone whos ever been there will tell you that there isnt anything like it. Anybody else been to all three and have an opinion as to what they would attend if they only had a choice to go to one?

Lemme put it a better way. A guy like GPK comes here last year, and then actually flies into town the last two days this year on the spur of the moment just because he can't bear the thought of not being here for at least a day.
Del Mar? No sales there, so I don't know how you can say the whole industry gathers there, because they don't. Saratoga is attended by people all over the world. Many who pick up and ship outta wherever they live and rent overpriced houses and rooms or hotels. They don't do it to watch racing Mike. Everyone now can watch races in there homes and quite nicely at that. You don't drop everything you have going on, spend a fortune on rent, and head to Saratoga for the racing. The racing is only part of it, and in most cases its not the whole reason. Its the social gatherings, seeing friends, the nights out, and the mornings watching graded stakes horse after graded stakes horse prance onto the track to work out as you sip coffee in a clubhouse box while mary Ryan drones on and on.
You ever make it here, lets see what kind of tune you are singing after you leave. Maybe next year!!!