3/28 (GP): Florida Derby (G1); Swale (G2); Appleton (G3)

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by justindew

Agreed. Pletcher is correct to bitch, although he could have scratched.

Exactly. Pletcher could have showed a little more class. Why didn't he run in the Wood to begin with??

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Exactly. Pletcher could have showed a little more class. Why didn't he run in the Wood to begin with??

probably because he thought he could win here. now, let's see if cooler heads prevail with the horse and future plans.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

probably because he thought he could win here. now, let's see if cooler heads prevail with the horse and future plans.

Good Point. Obviously Dunkirk has a load of talent. He just ran into a very tough horse today. I'd hate to see him miss the derby because of earnings, especially when he's arguably one of the top five three year olds.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Exactly. Pletcher could have showed a little more class. Why didn't he run in the Wood to begin with??

I would imagine it's difficult when you lose, and they jam the mic in your face right away. It is hard to complain like that without looking like you're trying to take away from the winners performance. They would of been closer together. That's all you can really say. There were easier spots. For whatever reason, they chose this spot.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I would imagine it's difficult when you lose, and they jam the mic in your face right away. It is hard to complain like that without looking like you're trying to take away from the winners performance. They would of been closer together. That's all you can really say. There were easier spots. For whatever reason, they chose this spot.

Good point.

I was having a discussion with a handicapper (Draynay) yesterday evening, and the topic of how fast the track was yesterday came up. With The Bonnie Miss going fast in spite of hard fractions, Dr. Pleasure equaling Quality Road's FOY time in an allowance, and the last race 18K claimers buzz sawing through a sub 1:16.

I feel bad for Pletch, but you can't take it away from Quality Road. If a 2nd in this truely top class race doesn't get you in, the blame isn't as much on the track as it is on circumstance.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I would imagine it's difficult when you lose, and they jam the mic in your face right away. It is hard to complain like that without looking like you're trying to take away from the winners performance. They would of been closer together. That's all you can really say. There were easier spots. For whatever reason, they chose this spot.

i don't think anyone would react well when someone is basically asking 'how'd it feel to lose?'

[mbahadur]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Exactly. Pletcher could have showed a little more class. Why didn't he run in the Wood to begin with??

It would have been just as difficult to win the Wood (which has the same $750K purse as the Fla Derby) with I Want Revenge in there as it would have been the Florida Derby. On HRTV before the race, when asked about the comparison to Big Brown going into the Florida Derby last year, Jeff Siegel stated that this was a much tougher field than Big Brown had to face.

The $1 million Arkansas Derby may have been a good fit for Dunkirk's running style if Pletcher could have waited 2 more weeks (second in the Arkansas Derby is also worth more than second in the Fla Derby).

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by mbahadur

The $1 million Arkansas Derby may have been a good fit for Dunkirk's running style if Pletcher could have waited 2 more weeks (second in the Arkansas Derby is also worth more than second in the Fla Derby).

Not an easy track to close on... and right now there isn't loads of speed in Arkansas. Silver City is not going... so it's Papa Clem and who else on the front?

[ELA]

Pletcher was disappointed. He was interviewed right there, on the spot, that moment. With everything considered, and of course his horse got beat fairly easily as well, emotion is going to come into play. No matter how he got beat, he got beat and Pletcher would be disappointed. Easy to understand.

As far as the Derby goes, if they want to try and get in -- rushing, pushing the envelope, etc. -- if that's the price they want to pay, they will pay it.

Eric

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ELA

Pletcher was disappointed. He was interviewed right there, on the spot, that moment. With everything considered, and of course his horse got beat fairly easily as well, emotion is going to come into play. No matter how he got beat, he got beat and Pletcher would be disappointed. Easy to understand.

As far as the Derby goes, if they want to try and get in -- rushing, pushing the envelope, etc. -- if that's the price they want to pay, they will pay it.

Eric

none of the horses seem to have much bottom going in these days. i don't think it would be much of a stretch to run dunkirk. it's not as tho the rest of the field is going in with double-digit starts anymore.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Danzig

none of the horses seem to have much bottom going in these days. i don't think it would be much of a stretch to run dunkirk. it's not as tho the rest of the field is going in with double-digit starts anymore.

Yes, I'll agree. You can look to Big Brown, Curlin, etc. OK. So, what are they going to do here, run again to get in? Which race? I just don't see it. I think people will debate it all day, but the bottom line is that he didn't do enough to get in. With Big Brown, simply put, he won it so it was clear cut. Curlin -- he had a G3 and a G2 in his last two starts before the Derby.

Regardless, I see your point. I just don't see Dunkirk doing anything but sitting on the bubble and waiting. If he gets in, sure he'll run, but I don't see it being the ideal, far from it.

Eric

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ELA

Yes, I'll agree. You can look to Big Brown, Curlin, etc. OK. So, what are they going to do here, run again to get in? Which race? I just don't see it. I think people will debate it all day, but the bottom line is that he didn't do enough to get in. With Big Brown, simply put, he won it so it was clear cut. Curlin -- he had a G3 and a G2 in his last two starts before the Derby.

Regardless, I see your point. I just don't see Dunkirk doing anything but sitting on the bubble and waiting. If he gets in, sure he'll run, but I don't see it being the ideal, far from it.

Eric

after reading what pletcher had said before the race, i don't expect they run him again.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ELA

Pletcher was disappointed. He was interviewed right there, on the spot, that moment. With everything considered, and of course his horse got beat fairly easily as well, emotion is going to come into play. No matter how he got beat, he got beat and Pletcher would be disappointed. Easy to understand.

As far as the Derby goes, if they want to try and get in -- rushing, pushing the envelope, etc. -- if that's the price they want to pay, they will pay it.

Eric

Eric,

Does that also excuse his berating Gulfstream President Bill Murphy?

I guess this was the first 'big day' track Todd Pletcher ever ran horses on, so we should all sympathize.

They press any further with Dunkirk and they'll be no Dunkirk. He was already noticeably thin and wan...

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Eric,

Does that also excuse his berating Gulfstream President Bill Murphy?

I guess this was the first 'big day' track Todd Pletcher ever ran horses on, so we should all sympathize.

They press any further with Dunkirk and they'll be no Dunkirk. He was already noticeably thin and wan...

Steve, come on. Three track records? (Edit: or maybe just two)

However, if your analysis of him looking less than 100% is on the money, then I'd have to agree that pushing on is a bad decision. I had heard he looked like a million bucks.

[Bigsmc]

I haven't read all of the threads yet, but no love for Big Drama (so far)?

I thought that was pretty impressive off the layoff. Fawkes is doing some fine work with this horse.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Eric,

Does that also excuse his berating Gulfstream President Bill Murphy?

I guess this was the first 'big day' track Todd Pletcher ever ran horses on, so we should all sympathize.

They press any further with Dunkirk and they'll be no Dunkirk. He was already noticeably thin and wan...

Also? Steve, I didn't defend what Pletcher said. It just didn't surprise me. In addition, I didn't say anyone should sympathize with Pletcher. I just think it's very easy to understand him being disappointed.

Pletcher's a big boy, playing in the big leagues and if someone in the media wants to "call him out" so to speak regarding these comments, they will. Were there some excuses here? Sure. Like I said, he was disappointed. His horse got beat. Period.

Eric

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ELA

Also? Steve, I didn't defend what Pletcher said. It just didn't surprise me. In addition, I didn't say anyone should sympathize with Pletcher. I just think it's very easy to understand him being disappointed.

Pletcher's a big boy, playing in the big leagues and if someone in the media wants to "call him out" so to speak regarding these comments, they will. Were there some excuses here? Sure. Like I said, he was disappointed. His horse got beat. Period.

Eric

His grousing was laughable. He's supposed to be the "ulimate professional horse trainer", and if that's the case, you acknowledge the winner and move on. During the 'vintage' Pletcher era, Dunkirk may have been ready to run a third big race in a relatively short time... Alas, those halcyon days are gone. The salad days as it were... Maybe DougS can pull the info up, but I'd guess that Pletcher has benefitted dozens of times from 'big day' racetracks when his horses would 're-break' at the top of the stretch and power away from fields. (Remember all those 4-5 winners that have largely disappeared from his shed?) Didn't hear him whine like a 4 year old about those surfaces.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Was it really a surprise the track was like that? When is a track not souped up on a big day? But, I wouldn't focus on the "track records" too much. Aren't the new records only since the track was reconfigured? So we are only looking at a few years worth of races to compare. But, also aren't a majority of track records more an indication of the track, then who is doing the running?

Exactly

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Was it really a surprise the track was like that? When is a track not souped up on a big day?

It was very dull on Sunshine Millions day .. which I believe is GP's second biggest day.

This One's For Phil and You Luckie Mann were the only two horses who ran a respectable final time that day. YLM hasn't even had a single workout since that race ... I'm assuming he also suffered a stall injury from the stress of that performance.

I have no problem with how fast they make the track ... I personally prefer to see lightning fast race tracks ... I think horses of all running styles handle them better and races are run truer to form - but all I want them to do is to do the best they can at keeping the track consistant throughout the day so that you can do a proper job of analyzing the races afterwards without all kinds of guess work.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Eric,

Does that also excuse his berating Gulfstream President Bill Murphy?

I guess this was the first 'big day' track Todd Pletcher ever ran horses on, so we should all sympathize.

They press any further with Dunkirk and they'll be no Dunkirk. He was already noticeably thin and wan...

Childish and unsporting behavior from Pletcher to be sure . Churchill soups for the Derby as well ... I think he was cheesed off about scratchin the rabbit ...

Nice catch on Dunkirk's appearance---it has not been brought up much .

I thought he looked like a skinny filly coming down the stretch, and Kate Moss when they hosed him down--too bloody frail and tucked up .

Not an animal you would expect to have the physical reserves/resources to be bound for the classics ...