Pompa-Reynolds Relationship Ends

[blackthroatedwind]

So, in other words, if a trainer's barn gets cold, his owners should just move the horses to another trainer. I get it.

That may, or may not, be what happened here. But hey, it's the internet, keep guessing away.

I like both parties involved. I wish them both only the best. Pat's a good trainer. I hope things work out for him.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So, in other words, if a trainer's barn gets cold, his owners should just move the horses to another trainer. I get it.

That may, or may not, be what happened here. But hey, it's the internet, keep guessing away.

I like both parties involved. I wish them both only the best. Pat's a good trainer. I hope things work out for him.

You guys are too close to it to be objective. If it was just this year, then I could see hanging in there. The results haven't been good enough. You haven't given any reason to stick with him(other than he's a nice guy.) You guys have got shows, and don't want to upset anyone for down the road. Maybe he'll do better with claimers. Andy,you're is so worried about a 1 for 35 trainer, huh. You can be his 1st new client. That's a better way to support him than to say he had acceptable results(when he just didn't.)

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You guys are too close to it to be objective. If it was just this year, then I could see hanging in there. The results haven't been good enough. You haven't given any reason to stick with him(other than he's a nice guy.) You guys have got shows, and don't want to upset anyone for down the road. Maybe he'll do better with claimers. Andy,you're is so worried about a 1 for 35 trainer, huh. You can be his 1st new client. That's a better way to support him than to say he had acceptable results(when he just didn't.)

Don't try to bolster your argument by accusing me of things that aren't true. My show has zero to do with my opinion. I am friendly with both Paul Pompa and Pat Reynolds. I'm not even discussing what might have actually happened here, but I do know that what you are saying is BS, as both men had a lot of success together up until this year at Gulfstream.

Don't put words in my mouth. It's tiresome, expected, but tiresome. You say I'm " so worried about " Pat Reynolds. Please, find the post of mine here that backs up that statement. Otherwise, respond to what I post, not what you imagine I posted.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Don't try to bolster your argument by accusing me of things that aren't true. My show has zero to do with my opinion. I am friendly with both Paul Pompa and Pat Reynolds. I'm not even discussing what might have actually happened here, but I do know that what you are saying is BS, as both men had a lot of success together up until this year at Gulfstream.

Don't put words in my mouth. It's tiresome, expected, but tiresome. You say I'm " so worried about " Pat Reynolds. Please, find the post of mine here that backs up that statement. Otherwise, respond to what I post, not what you imagine I posted.

You can't be objective about it. Considering what horses he's been given by the guy, the success together hasn't been nearly as good as it would have been with these other trainers. You're too close.

I think Paul Pampers handled the split like a big baby.


See what I did there?

LOL.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You can't be objective about it. Considering what horses he's been given by the guy, the success together hasn't been nearly as good as it would have been with these other trainers. You're too close.

You just don't give up. Nothing you said makes any sense whatsoever in relation to what I posted. Nothing.

I give you consistency points.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You just don't give up. Nothing you said makes any sense whatsoever in relation to what I posted. Nothing.

I give you consistency points.

After saying your friendly with the trainer who got fired, everything you're saying makes perfect sense, because you are too damn close.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

After saying your friendly with the trainer who got fired, everything you're saying makes perfect sense, because you are too damn close.

I am friendly with BOTH Pat Reynolds and Paul Pompa. I have said nothing either for or against either party in this particular situation. Anyone who can read would see that is the case. My comments were in response to your mistaken contention that this meet was not an aberration. That also doesn't mean that Paul didn't have a valid reason for making a change. None of us know exactly what went down. Unlike you, I don't choose to guess about that which I don't know in this particular situation.

Just so you understand, I knock the chances of horses both owned and trained by people I am friendly with every single racing day, on the air. I am nothing if not objective. I understand, you don't listen, which is fine, but stop pretending you do.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You guys are too close to it to be objective. If it was just this year, then I could see hanging in there. The results haven't been good enough. You haven't given any reason to stick with him(other than he's a nice guy.) You guys have got shows, and don't want to upset anyone for down the road. Maybe he'll do better with claimers. Andy,you're is so worried about a 1 for 35 trainer, huh. You can be his 1st new client. That's a better way to support him than to say he had acceptable results(when he just didn't.)

And you are too far from it. It's very easy to run someone else's business and make decisions from afar -- and I am not saying it was a bad decision at all. It's also very easy to say other trainers would have done produced more, better results, etc. Great theory there and two people can argue about that in perpetuity.

Like Andy said, I don't think anyone here knows exactly what went on and why the split occured. Why do people feel the need to guess, throw darts at reasons, etc.? This is not the first time a big owner has split up with Pat. Pat also has never run a vast public stable. While I don't think he's ever been private (maybe he has), he's often been in the game of having a lot of horses for one owner, maybe two. He's just that kind of guy, and if you know him, his history, etc. you would understand that. He's a character and I say that in a positive way. The racetrack is full of them.

I am sure when one of the horses steps up and wins, gets a first grade, throws up a new lifetime best, or something -- then it will be time to say "Told you so"

Eric

[ELA]

Since others are throwing darts -- JMHO -- besides results, there were some politics here as well.

BTW, I know neither of these guys. Pat might say hello to me walking by, but I don't think he knows my name, face and who I am. We've claimed from each other, but that's about it.

Eric

[sumitas]

I do recall that Bruce Brown had a winner in NY a couple of weeks ago for Pompa . I can't recall the name of that horse . So Brown now has at least 2 from Pompa .

I found the race . 2/22/09 race 1 . Incalzando .
http://equibase.com/static/chart/sum...09USA-EQB.html

Oddly, it says the following on pedigreequery for Incalzando "Euthanized after breaking down during a workout.
(Note: racing at Aqueduct Feb 2009)." I do hope the son of Giants Causeway, broodmare sire Seeking The Gold, is ok .

[gamblin4ever]

After 5yrs together Pompa should have told Reynolds personally not thru someone slse.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by ELA

And you are too far from it. It's very easy to run someone else's business and make decisions from afar -- and I am not saying it was a bad decision at all. It's also very easy to say other trainers would have done produced more, better results, etc. Great theory there and two people can argue about that in perpetuity.

Like Andy said, I don't think anyone here knows exactly what went on and why the split occured. Why do people feel the need to guess, throw darts at reasons, etc.? This is not the first time a big owner has split up with Pat. Pat also has never run a vast public stable. While I don't think he's ever been private (maybe he has), he's often been in the game of having a lot of horses for one owner, maybe two. He's just that kind of guy, and if you know him, his history, etc. you would understand that. He's a character and I say that in a positive way. The racetrack is full of them.

I am sure when one of the horses steps up and wins, gets a first grade, throws up a new lifetime best, or something -- then it will be time to say "Told you so"

Eric

I'm not guessing. I'm saying the split was overdue(from a performance stand point.) It's a good move (regardless of whether he got smart or not.) Same result. For whatever reason, the results weren't good enough. Maybe he will do better with a fresh start. Start claiming cheap horses. A lot of the time, those are the better individuals for some people to work with. Maybe they just suit him better than class horses. I'm not saying he won't do well. I'm just saying this situation wasn't as productive as it should of been. People on here can keep trying to dance around that all they want, but that's simply an unavoidable fact.

[Kasept]

I made a mistake posting this news ahead of the public coverage of the situation, and I will never do it again in a story of this kind. When I wrote that I was saddened by the breakup, it was because I have gotten very friendly with both Pompa and Reynolds covering Backseat Rhythm into the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies at Monmouth and then Big Brown. They have been very generous with me on the radio, and they have been one of New York's most durable and well-liked owner-trainer combos for the last 5 years, and did well by each other.

For those that continue to want to speculate, and unfairly ridicule the very capable Reynolds, the breakup has been brewing for months, and the recent performance of Pompa-Reynolds runners is tangental to the scenario. Both parties can be cited for generating this final outcome with a single incident last week being the breaking point. To put it simply and in a way people should understand, for a variety of reasons both professional and personal, the two have grown apart in the wake of last year's experiences with Big Brown.

This is a very unpleasant and unhappy story and anyone that knows Pompa and Reynolds wishes them well as they are both terrific individuals.

[Linny]

There is backstory in any situation like this. There is usually enough blame to go around. I have met Reynolds once or twice and don't know Pompa. I've seen alot of their horses run, sometimes well, sometimes not so well. It happens.
When I read the story I got the impression that Pompa had built a relationship with Dutrow via Big Brown and felt that if he was going "step up" his stock that he should "step up" his trainer. Honestly, that does make me wonder about him, but then again, he is paying the bills and has certain expectations that he feels are not being met.

I don't know the "real story" behind this but as someone mentioned, these thing happen all the time in this game. We have very few long term owner/trainer relationships left (Dreyfus/Jerkens and Phipps/McGaughey come to mind) anymore. I wish them both success.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I'm not guessing. I'm saying the split was overdue(from a performance stand point.) It's a good move (regardless of whether he got smart or not.) Same result. For whatever reason, the results weren't good enough. Maybe he will do better with a fresh start. Start claiming cheap horses. A lot of the time, those are the better individuals for some people to work with. Maybe they just suit him better than class horses. I'm not saying he won't do well. I'm just saying this situation wasn't as productive as it should of been. People on here can keep trying to dance around that all they want, but that's simply an unavoidable fact.

From a performance standpoint you have no substantiation whatsoever. You cite one statistic (I think) from one meet. That's it and that's zero. I am not defending Pat, like I said, don't know him, but let's see the facts here. I've seen a lot of posts, but no facts. I don't have 'em so I am not saying either way. And, there is no way that your position can be proven. It's for Pompa to say not you. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. Pompa wants to step up and say he lost $5m and Pat picked out all the horses -- great, now we have something (this is not true of course).

Plenty of people who know Paul and Pat know about some of the other issues going on -- the history, mindset of each, etc. The performance, of this meet, or last weekend is very simply ancillary. Call it the performance of the last year or 5 years for that matter, and you still have to see the facts. Your opinion is not fact.

In their own way -- both guys are good for the game and I wish them both all the best . . . unless they are racing against me and then I wish them second best. LOL.

Eric

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Reynolds is 0-for-32 with just two 2nds at Gulfstream this year. He was 1-for-29 with zero 2nd's at last years Gulfstream meet.

A combined 1-for-61 record at Gulfstream over the last two years - with just two 2nd place finishes - and Well Positioned getting beat 18+ lengths back to back is going to test security.

Reynolds was 45-10-12-8 (22.2% wins, 66.6% ITM, $2.29 ROI) at Belmont last year. He was 12-for-54 (22%) at Belmont two years ago. He was 25% and profitable at Saratoga last year.

His horses have just been dreadful the past two winters .. and it's tough luck for him that he won't have them for the meets you'd expect them to start coming alive for.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Reynolds is 0-for-32 with just two 2nds at Gulfstream this year. He was 1-for-29 with zero 2nd's at last years Gulfstream meet.

A combined 1-for-61 record at Gulfstream over the last two years - with just two 2nd place finishes - and Well Positioned getting beat 18+ lengths back to back is going to test security.

Reynolds was 45-10-12-8 (22.2% wins, 66.6% ITM, $2.29 ROI) at Belmont last year. He was 12-for-54 (22%) at Belmont two years ago. He was 25% and profitable at Saratoga last year.

His horses have just been dreadful the past two winters .. and it's tough luck for him that he won't have them for the meets you'd expect them to start coming alive for.

You're letting statistics get in the way of the arguments on here.


D*MN YOU!!!