Pompa-Reynolds Relationship Ends

#1 03-17-2009, 06:12 PM

This thread is on the verge of having the most post deletions on site.

SCUDSBROTHER · #2 03-17-2009, 07:08 PM

Well, the guy is what? 1 for 35 this year? His lone win came in a grade 3 (by a nose) with a horse who was winning grade 2, and grade 1 races last year. She got a Beyer of 91. So, Pampa lets him have that 10k. He could of made the change earlier, and he wouldn't of got that 10k. Pampa gave him 10% of whatever they sold 75% interest in Big Brown for. I do think it was a no brainer to make the change, and not just because of this slow year. The overall body of work has not been anywhere near what other trainers could of done in this time they've been together. Say anything you want about how crazy I am etc., but in the end, this guy wasn't getting results that other people could of gotten with the same horses. Maybe they shouldn't have been getting their results. Maybe they're doing something wrong, and he isn't. I don't know, but moving his horses was a no-brainer. It's been a no-brainer for a long time. He should think the guy for sticking with him longer than he probably should have. An objective look at it will show the results weren't even close to being good enough.

blackthroatedwind · #3 03-17-2009, 07:30 PM

So, in other words, if a trainer's barn gets cold, his owners should just move the horses to another trainer. I get it.

That may, or may not, be what happened here. But hey, it's the internet, keep guessing away.

I like both parties involved. I wish them both only the best. Pat's a good trainer. I hope things work out for him.

SCUDSBROTHER · #4 03-17-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So, in other words, if a trainer's barn gets cold, his owners should just move the horses to another trainer. I get it.

That may, or may not, be what happened here. But hey, it's the internet, keep guessing away.

I like both parties involved. I wish them both only the best. Pat's a good trainer. I hope things work out for him.

You guys are too close to it to be objective. If it was just this year, then I could see hanging in there. The results haven't been good enough. You haven't given any reason to stick with him(other than he's a nice guy.) You guys have got shows, and don't want to upset anyone for down the road. Maybe he'll do better with claimers. Andy,you're is so worried about a 1 for 35 trainer, huh. You can be his 1st new client. That's a better way to support him than to say he had acceptable results(when he just didn't.)

blackthroatedwind · #5 03-17-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You guys are too close to it to be objective. If it was just this year, then I could see hanging in there. The results haven't been good enough. You haven't given any reason to stick with him(other than he's a nice guy.) You guys have got shows, and don't want to upset anyone for down the road. Maybe he'll do better with claimers. Andy,you're is so worried about a 1 for 35 trainer, huh. You can be his 1st new client. That's a better way to support him than to say he had acceptable results(when he just didn't.)

Don't try to bolster your argument by accusing me of things that aren't true. My show has zero to do with my opinion. I am friendly with both Paul Pompa and Pat Reynolds. I'm not even discussing what might have actually happened here, but I do know that what you are saying is BS, as both men had a lot of success together up until this year at Gulfstream.

Don't put words in my mouth. It's tiresome, expected, but tiresome. You say I'm " so worried about " Pat Reynolds. Please, find the post of mine here that backs up that statement. Otherwise, respond to what I post, not what you imagine I posted.

SCUDSBROTHER · #6 03-17-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Don't try to bolster your argument by accusing me of things that aren't true. My show has zero to do with my opinion. I am friendly with both Paul Pompa and Pat Reynolds. I'm not even discussing what might have actually happened here, but I do know that what you are saying is BS, as both men had a lot of success together up until this year at Gulfstream.

Don't put words in my mouth. It's tiresome, expected, but tiresome. You say I'm " so worried about " Pat Reynolds. Please, find the post of mine here that backs up that statement. Otherwise, respond to what I post, not what you imagine I posted.

You can't be objective about it. Considering what horses he's been given by the guy, the success together hasn't been nearly as good as it would have been with these other trainers. You're too close.

#7 03-17-2009, 08:07 PM

I think Paul Pampers handled the split like a big baby.

See what I did there?

LOL.

blackthroatedwind · #8 03-17-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You can't be objective about it. Considering what horses he's been given by the guy, the success together hasn't been nearly as good as it would have been with these other trainers. You're too close.

You just don't give up. Nothing you said makes any sense whatsoever in relation to what I posted. Nothing.

I give you consistency points.

ELA · #9 03-17-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You guys are too close to it to be objective. If it was just this year, then I could see hanging in there. The results haven't been good enough. You haven't given any reason to stick with him(other than he's a nice guy.) You guys have got shows, and don't want to upset anyone for down the road. Maybe he'll do better with claimers. Andy,you're is so worried about a 1 for 35 trainer, huh. You can be his 1st new client. That's a better way to support him than to say he had acceptable results(when he just didn't.)

And you are too far from it. It's very easy to run someone else's business and make decisions from afar -- and I am not saying it was a bad decision at all. It's also very easy to say other trainers would have done produced more, better results, etc. Great theory there and two people can argue about that in perpetuity.

Like Andy said, I don't think anyone here knows exactly what went on and why the split occured. Why do people feel the need to guess, throw darts at reasons, etc.? This is not the first time a big owner has split up with Pat. Pat also has never run a vast public stable. While I don't think he's ever been private (maybe he has), he's often been in the game of having a lot of horses for one owner, maybe two. He's just that kind of guy, and if you know him, his history, etc. you would understand that. He's a character and I say that in a positive way. The racetrack is full of them.

I am sure when one of the horses steps up and wins, gets a first grade, throws up a new lifetime best, or something -- then it will be time to say "Told you so"

Eric

ELA · #10 03-17-2009, 10:44 PM

Since others are throwing darts -- JMHO -- besides results, there were some politics here as well.

BTW, I know neither of these guys. Pat might say hello to me walking by, but I don't think he knows my name, face and who I am. We've claimed from each other, but that's about it.

Eric

sumitas · #11 03-17-2009, 11:19 PM

I do recall that Bruce Brown had a winner in NY a couple of weeks ago for Pompa . I can't recall the name of that horse . So Brown now has at least 2 from Pompa .

I found the race . 2/22/09 race 1 . Incalzando .
http://equibase.com/static/chart/sum...09USA-EQB.html

Oddly, it says the following on pedigreequery for Incalzando "Euthanized after breaking down during a workout.
(Note: racing at Aqueduct Feb 2009)." I do hope the son of Giants Causeway, broodmare sire Seeking The Gold, is ok .

SCUDSBROTHER · #12 03-18-2009, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELA

And you are too far from it. It's very easy to run someone else's business and make decisions from afar -- and I am not saying it was a bad decision at all. It's also very easy to say other trainers would have done produced more, better results, etc. Great theory there and two people can argue about that in perpetuity.

Like Andy said, I don't think anyone here knows exactly what went on and why the split occured. Why do people feel the need to guess, throw darts at reasons, etc.? This is not the first time a big owner has split up with Pat. Pat also has never run a vast public stable. While I don't think he's ever been private (maybe he has), he's often been in the game of having a lot of horses for one owner, maybe two. He's just that kind of guy, and if you know him, his history, etc. you would understand that. He's a character and I say that in a positive way. The racetrack is full of them.

I am sure when one of the horses steps up and wins, gets a first grade, throws up a new lifetime best, or something -- then it will be time to say "Told you so"

Eric

I'm not guessing. I'm saying the split was overdue(from a performance stand point.) It's a good move (regardless of whether he got smart or not.) Same result. For whatever reason, the results weren't good enough. Maybe he will do better with a fresh start. Start claiming cheap horses. A lot of the time, those are the better individuals for some people to work with. Maybe they just suit him better than class horses. I'm not saying he won't do well. I'm just saying this situation wasn't as productive as it should of been. People on here can keep trying to dance around that all they want, but that's simply an unavoidable fact.

Kasept · #13 03-18-2009, 06:44 AM

I made a mistake posting this news ahead of the public coverage of the situation, and I will never do it again in a story of this kind. When I wrote that I was saddened by the breakup, it was because I have gotten very friendly with both Pompa and Reynolds covering Backseat Rhythm into the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies at Monmouth and then Big Brown. They have been very generous with me on the radio, and they have been one of New York's most durable and well-liked owner-trainer combos for the last 5 years, and did well by each other.

For those that continue to want to speculate, and unfairly ridicule the very capable Reynolds, the breakup has been brewing for months, and the recent performance of Pompa-Reynolds runners is tangental to the scenario. Both parties can be cited for generating this final outcome with a single incident last week being the breaking point. To put it simply and in a way people should understand, for a variety of reasons both professional and personal, the two have grown apart in the wake of last year's experiences with Big Brown.

This is a very unpleasant and unhappy story and anyone that knows Pompa and Reynolds wishes them well as they are both terrific individuals.

ELA · #14 03-18-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I'm not guessing. I'm saying the split was overdue(from a performance stand point.) It's a good move (regardless of whether he got smart or not.) Same result. For whatever reason, the results weren't good enough. Maybe he will do better with a fresh start. Start claiming cheap horses. A lot of the time, those are the better individuals for some people to work with. Maybe they just suit him better than class horses. I'm not saying he won't do well. I'm just saying this situation wasn't as productive as it should of been. People on here can keep trying to dance around that all they want, but that's simply an unavoidable fact.

From a performance standpoint you have no substantiation whatsoever. You cite one statistic (I think) from one meet. That's it and that's zero. I am not defending Pat, like I said, don't know him, but let's see the facts here. I've seen a lot of posts, but no facts. I don't have 'em so I am not saying either way. And, there is no way that your position can be proven. It's for Pompa to say not you. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. Pompa wants to step up and say he lost $5m and Pat picked out all the horses -- great, now we have something (this is not true of course).

Plenty of people who know Paul and Pat know about some of the other issues going on -- the history, mindset of each, etc. The performance, of this meet, or last weekend is very simply ancillary. Call it the performance of the last year or 5 years for that matter, and you still have to see the facts. Your opinion is not fact.

In their own way -- both guys are good for the game and I wish them both all the best . . . unless they are racing against me and then I wish them second best. LOL.

Eric