First 2009 March Madness thread - Page 9

philcski · #**161** 03-11-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Xavier made the elite 8 in '04 as did St Joe's. Xavier proved they were an excellent team at the end of '04 when they beat St Joes in the A10 tourney...Xavier took out 2 and 3 seeds Texas and Mississippi State and payed a very close game in the regional final against Duke. With what Xavier did in the NCAA tourney in '04 it is hard to argue they didn't just flat out beat St Joe's in the A10 tourney.

This is true. However, at the time, Xavier was FAR FROM a tournament lock. They were 10-9 at one point in the season before going on a tear starting with beating their crosstown rivals Cincinnati, but despite that huge win their profile was shaky because of some bad losses and a very moderate record. They HAD to win that game or sweat out the bubble to even get in the tournament at 20-11. I watched almost every St. Joe's game that year and they hardly even showed up for the game.

I stand by my statement that the A-10 is notorious for having their top seeds flame out when they are locks. I would do it too to get multiple bids.

horseofcourse · #**162** 03-11-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

This is true. However, at the time, Xavier was FAR FROM a tournament lock. They were 10-9 at one point in the season before going on a tear starting with beating their crosstown rivals Cincinnati, but despite that huge win their profile was shaky because of some bad losses and a very moderate record. They HAD to win that game or sweat out the bubble to even get in the tournament at 20-11. I watched almost every St. Joe's game that year and they hardly even showed up for the game.

I stand by my statement that the A-10 is notorious for having their top seeds flame out when they are locks. I would do it too to get multiple bids.

Of course Xavier was not a lock in '04, in fact they probably weren't in at all if they didn't win the A10 tourney that year...I think that played more a role in their beating St Joe's than St Joes losing on purpose.

philcski · #**163** 03-11-2009, 10:09 PM

Give me 5th place West Virginia and 6th place Syracuse over any 5th and 6th place teams in any other league. MAN these teams are good, I'm fired up to go to the Garden tomorrow.

philcski · #**164** 03-11-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Of course Xavier was not a lock in '04, in fact they probably weren't in at all if they didn't win the A10 tourney that year...I think that played more a role in their beating St Joe's than St Joes losing on purpose.

I think you're missing my point... there's a HUGE financial incentive for the league if the top seed is a lock for an at-large to lose in their conference tournament... and 95% of the time the seed hit doesn't matter... and the A-10 is notorious for having head-scratching results in their conference tournament, even if you don't think my '04 example makes sense.

On that sentiment, Gonzaga did a disservice to the WCC by steamrolling St. Mary's in the final the other day.

King Glorious · #**165** 03-12-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

I think you're missing my point... there's a HUGE financial incentive for the league if the top seed is a lock for an at-large to lose in their conference tournament... and 95% of the time the seed hit doesn't matter... and the A-10 is notorious for having head-scratching results in their conference tournament, even if you don't think my '04 example makes sense.

On that sentiment, Gonzaga did a disservice to the WCC by steamrolling St. Mary's in the final the other day.

I get what you are saying and it makes sense from the perspective of the league that they would want that to happen. But not from the player perspective. You can't tell these players to go out and not give it their best for the benefit of the league. It just doesn't work that way. For one, I think you'd be surprised to learn that for a lot of big time schools, the number one goal of the season is to be the conference champion. Not saying that they don't want to win the national title but the conference championship is a much more realistic goal. These schools in your conference are who you are recruiting against and it's a big deal to be able to say that every year, you have a strong chance to be conference champion and be in the running for national champ. I don't think this can be underestimated. Take a situation like in the ACC with Duke, UNC, NC St, and Wake all being so close to each other. These players constantly see each other in the offseason. Bragging rights are huge and you have them when you are conference champ. Same thing up in the Big East where a lot of the prime players come from the area between NY and DC. Florida or Kansas can win the national championship but that conference championship is very important in the regional areas.

#**166** 03-12-2009, 11:04 AM

Stunning Big 12 report:

Texas ATM, up 50-29 at halftime,
lost to Texas Tech 88-83. A bench player
scored a Big 12 tournament record
43 points, including a stretch where
he scored 29 in a row. Turgeon
says his team just quit. And they
should not be thinking about any
tournaments right now.

If ATM does not get in because of
at large bids getting scarce, would
this surprise after a loss for a team
that was not a shoo-in?

Aggies proving what Aggies are.

ateamstupid · #**167** 03-12-2009, 12:10 PM

Stop it. A&M is in.

#**168** 03-12-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Stop it. A&M is in.

You need to inform Mark Turgeon.

ateamstupid · #**169** 03-12-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

You need to inform Mark Turgeon.

All he said is they're not as comfortable as they would've been with a win last night. He says he still thinks they're in, and they are.

#**170** 03-12-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

All he said is they're not as comfortable as they would've been with a win last night. He says he still thinks they're in, and they are.

Every place I look at has them in.
As is Oklahoma St.

But it does not mean I have to like it.
Dammit.

philcski · #**171** 03-12-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

All he said is they're not as comfortable as they would've been with a win last night. He says he still thinks they're in, and they are.

Agree... they are a 9-10 seed and comfortably in. Texas Tech isn't that bad of a loss that they would fall 8 spots on the bubble S-curve.

Today's news... Miami, OUT. Providence, OUT. VT, step in the right direction but not there yet. One more win would probably do it. They are only 18-13 but they have taken some brutally tough losses and that must be factored in IMO.

#**172** 03-12-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Agree... they are a 9-10 seed and comfortably in. Texas Tech isn't that bad of a loss that they would fall 8 spots on the bubble S-curve.

Today's news... Miami, OUT. Providence, OUT. VT, step in the right direction but not there yet. One more win would probably do it. They are only 18-13 but they have taken some brutally tough losses and that must be factored in IMO.

It may not be a bad loss but the way they lost
is inexcusable. And most of the places I look
agree with the 9 or 10 seed.

GBBob · #**173** 03-12-2009, 01:35 PM

Northwestern officially out

ateamstupid · #**174** 03-12-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

It may not be a bad loss but the way they lost
is inexcusable. And most of the places I look
agree with the 9 or 10 seed.

The way they lost? The kid scored 29 in a row and couldn't miss, and that was the only way in hell Texas Tech could've won. How is that inexcusable? How many teams would've won that game?

ateamstupid · #**175** 03-12-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Agree... they are a 9-10 seed and comfortably in. Texas Tech isn't that bad of a loss that they would fall 8 spots on the bubble S-curve.

Today's news... Miami, OUT. Providence, OUT. VT, step in the right direction but not there yet. One more win would probably do it. They are only 18-13 but they have taken some brutally tough losses and that must be factored in IMO.

Minnesota has to be in now, and Michigan is up 16 early. If they hold on, they're in too.

declansharbor · #**176** 03-12-2009, 02:30 PM

I am officially off of the Kansas train.

ateamstupid · #**177** 03-12-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by declansharbor

I am officially off of the Kansas train.

Be careful. Baylor is one of the season's biggest underachievers, with a bunch of seniors who don't want to go home. I wouldn't be shocked to see them go on to win the Big XII Tournament.

#**178** 03-12-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The way they lost? The kid scored 29 in a row and couldn't miss, and that was the only way in hell Texas Tech could've won. How is that inexcusable? How many teams would've won that game?

Are you frggn kidding me.
Let a bench player score 29 in a row.

HOW ABOUT COVERING HIM.
IS THAT A NOVEL IDEA?

Force someone else to shoot the ball.

Texas ATM quit in that game.
They stopped playing.
Did you watch the game?

It was streaming, you could have caught it.
The question to ask is how many teams would
have lost that game? It was 50-29 at halftime
for Oden's sake.

#**179** 03-12-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Be careful. Baylor is one of the season's biggest underachievers, with a bunch of seniors who don't want to go home. I wouldn't be shocked to see them go on to win the Big XII Tournament.

I would be very surprised.

ateamstupid · #**180** 03-12-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

I would be very surprised.

Why? Did Baylor suddenly forget how to play basketball in the past year? You rail every day about how terrible the Big XII is, but now you'd be shocked to see an underachieving Tournament team from last year win two games.

And I'm done discussing A&M with you. You obviously hate them and can't be impartial. That's fine, but they're in the Tournament. Deal with it.