Change We've Been Waiting For?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Hamas to receive $900 million courtesy of the American taxpayer. Check to be personally delivered by Hillary. So we now support and aid Terrorists. That's the change all this hope is based on???

Lori's right Steve...nothing is being delivered personally to Hamas. This is how you mend fences and get both sides to a real bargaining position. If we can help the Iraqi people, we certainly can help the innocents in Palestine...and there are plenty of those. You're just shooting from the hip now

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Lori's right Steve...nothing is being delivered personally to Hamas. This is how you mend fences and get both sides to a real bargaining position. If we can help the Iraqi people, we certainly can help the innocents in Palestine...and there are plenty of those. You're just shooting from the hip now

You're missing the point!....Gaza has no govt in place...Hamas rules there.
You give the money for the people To Hamas..they buy more weapons and
suicide bombers

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

You're missing the point!....Gaza has no govt in place...Hamas rules there.
You give the money for the people To Hamas..they buy more weapons and
suicide bombers

The UN is receiving it and distributing it to keep it away from Hamas

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090224/...i_ea/israel_us

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GBBob

The UN is receiving it and distributing it to keep it away from Hamas

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090224/...i_ea/israel_us

The UN is a den of thieves....their stripes won't change now!

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

The UN is a den of thieves....their stripes won't change now!

whatever..It's useless trying to have a rational conversation when you phillibuster everything with innuendos, stereotypes and assumptions...

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GBBob

whatever..It's useless trying to have a rational conversation when you phillibuster everything with innuendos, stereotypes and assumptions...

Just look at the scandals involving the UN in recent yrs...that's not innuendo
Bob...either you want the truth or you don't.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Just look at the scandals involving the UN in recent yrs...that's not innuendo
Bob...either you want the truth or you don't.

Your version of the "truth" is what you believe. You have no respect or consideration that anything else has merit or is viable. Fortunately, at least in my opinion, your version of how this country should be run ain't happening and just because YOU think the sky is falling doesn't make it so. You do want this administration to fail and you will oppose every single policy because it comes from a Liberal, not a conservative. You are narrow minded and on your best day wouldn't have the vision to consider the potential 2-3 years down the road of what Obama is doing. Go ahead..let all the banks fail, let everyone go into foreclosure, cut all the taxes in half, let the Big 3 file for bankruptcy, cut off all foreign aid to Palestine, arm everyone and then see where we are in two years. We may be a little less in debt, but if you think this country will be "better off", I think YOU are the one with your head in the sand.

I like discussing politics, but as it always seems to happen, the right just ends up stomping into the sandbox because there is no grey area. It's black and white..they are right...literally and figuratively in their mind and everyone else is wrong..or...a Liberal. At least some of the right wingers on this board make intelligent and convincing cases for why they oppose certain policy pieces. You resort to soundbytes and cute comments....usually followed by an Op-Ed from The National Review or NY Post. Obama himself has said that 8-10% of his stimilus package is challengeable....That's more than I ever hear a conservative admit they might be wrong about anything.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

The UN is a den of thieves....their stripes won't change now!

Out of the Financial Times.....UN missing art pieces prior to moving to new HQ! I told you people...I don't make this stuff up

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Lori's right Steve...nothing is being delivered personally to Hamas. This is how you mend fences and get both sides to a real bargaining position. If we can help the Iraqi people, we certainly can help the innocents in Palestine...and there are plenty of those. You're just shooting from the hip now

The problem Bob is the corruption in places like this is staggering. In mending fences you need to publicize the fact, that this money (hopefully in the form of food and medical supplies) is going to the people of Palestine, to the people there. Remember that there is no Fox News/NBC, right/left balance in the media there to give both sides of the street. The fact that Hamas is the governing body in Palestine means that lots of that money will be flowing to them regardless of what the UN is saying or doing. When we talk about mending fences we have to remember that Hamas was elected by the people there to lead them. Think about the fact that they saw a terrorist organization as the best option. A terrorist organization that pays the families of kids that blow themselves up. If you think that we are going to get a whole lot of credit for the aid from the people i believe that you are being extremely optimistic. If you believe that this is an olive branch to the other countries in the Middle East, I think you are on the right track. Personally I dont think the $900 million dollars is anything more than a gesture of good faith by the new administration because as crazy as it sounds $900 million doesnt get you that much anymore. Will it work? Hopefully because the region is vital to the entire worlds interests regardless of whatever Quiet Chris may believe.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem Bob is the corruption in places like this is staggering. In mending fences you need to publicize the fact, that this money (hopefully in the form of food and medical supplies) is going to the people of Palestine, to the people there. Remember that there is no Fox News/NBC, right/left balance in the media there to give both sides of the street. The fact that Hamas is the governing body in Palestine means that lots of that money will be flowing to them regardless of what the UN is saying or doing. When we talk about mending fences we have to remember that Hamas was elected by the people there to lead them. Think about the fact that they saw a terrorist organization as the best option. A terrorist organization that pays the families of kids that blow themselves up. If you think that we are going to get a whole lot of credit for the aid from the people i believe that you are being extremely optimistic. If you believe that this is an olive branch to the other countries in the Middle East, I think you are on the right track. Personally I dont think the $900 million dollars is anything more than a gesture of good faith by the new administration because as crazy as it sounds $900 million doesnt get you that much anymore. Will it work? Hopefully because the region is vital to the entire worlds interests regardless of whatever Quiet Chris may believe.

interesting

do these other countries lift a finger for humanitarian aid? I'm guessing they only provide bomb making stuff to blow up more children.

the current president is a sympathizer

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem Bob is the corruption in places like this is staggering. In mending fences you need to publicize the fact, that this money (hopefully in the form of food and medical supplies) is going to the people of Palestine, to the people there. Remember that there is no Fox News/NBC, right/left balance in the media there to give both sides of the street. The fact that Hamas is the governing body in Palestine means that lots of that money will be flowing to them regardless of what the UN is saying or doing. When we talk about mending fences we have to remember that Hamas was elected by the people there to lead them. Think about the fact that they saw a terrorist organization as the best option. A terrorist organization that pays the families of kids that blow themselves up. If you think that we are going to get a whole lot of credit for the aid from the people i believe that you are being extremely optimistic. If you believe that this is an olive branch to the other countries in the Middle East, I think you are on the right track. Personally I dont think the $900 million dollars is anything more than a gesture of good faith by the new administration because as crazy as it sounds $900 million doesnt get you that much anymore. Will it work? Hopefully because the region is vital to the entire worlds interests regardless of whatever Quiet Chris may believe.

I agree with everything you say and am not naive enough to think that this money will end up where it should 100% as much as aid to any other country, including our own Hurricane victims, etc. But if one really thinks that there are just causes for trying to rebuild Gaza, real and/or perceived, then the $900 Million "Olive Branch" is an improvement from the $85 Million that had been on the table previously.

[joeydb]

Ummm, why are we giving ANY foreign aid right now? We can't afford it any longer. This is ridiculous. Keep the money at home where it will do some good. If you can't spend it here, give it back to the taxpayer -- he really needs it right now.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Ummm, why are we giving ANY foreign aid right now? We can't afford it any longer. This is ridiculous. Keep the money at home where it will do some good. If you can't spend it here, give it back to the taxpayer -- he really needs it right now.

Because the Middle East and how it affects us isn't going away because we are in the sh*tter.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Ummm, why are we giving ANY foreign aid right now? We can't afford it any longer. This is ridiculous. Keep the money at home where it will do some good. If you can't spend it here, give it back to the taxpayer -- he really needs it right now.

As Bob said because the ME needs stability. Like it or not we are part of a global economy in which we rely on foreign countries and investors as much as they rely on us. A full scale crisis in the ME can knock things way out of kilter for everyone if oil production and deliveries are affected. Not to mention the fallout from the terror attacks that will surely come and cause collateral damage against Western countries that will be forced to pick a side. Imagine how bad the economy would be if gas was still $4.50 cents a gallon?

[joeydb]

I see your point, but it just seems that all the "foreign aid" is going one way: out of our pockets. And I'm distinguishing foreign aid from trade, where at least products are changing hands, even though we seem to be unable to operate without a trade deficit.

I'm sure this can be reduced. Right now we have a situation where Hamas rocket attacks Israel, Israel has had enough of that so they invade Gaza, where invariably things get busted up like they would in any war zone, and then the United States pays to repair everything after Israel pulls out. That's perverse.

Even in our own military operations, we're paying twice. Once to blow stuff up and again to rebuild. We are suckers in the classic sense.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I see your point, but it just seems that all the "foreign aid" is going one way: out of our pockets. And I'm distinguishing foreign aid from trade, where at least products are changing hands, even though we seem to be unable to operate without a trade deficit.

I'm sure this can be reduced. Right now we have a situation where Hamas rocket attacks Israel, Israel has had enough of that so they invade Gaza, where invariably things get busted up like they would in any war zone, and then the United States pays to repair everything after Israel pulls out. That's perverse.

Even in our own military operations, we're paying twice. Once to blow stuff up and again to rebuild. We are suckers in the classic sense.

The $ is much better spent on Lavish Wednesday night get togethers at the whitehouse. Obama and the dems are quick to judge how companies spend $, but they seem to not hold themselves accountable. 180 enjoyed a nice meal last night on tax payer dollars and it seems that will be the norm going forward, not to mention the fact that he seems to be using Air force 1 as a boy who just got a new toy...